146. Harnessing Anxiety for Successful Entrepreneurs and High-Functioning Professionals with Dr. Chloe Carmichael

One of the biggest fears for therapists and coaches everywhere is, how do I get clients? How will I stay in business? Right. And so I used what I know as a psychologist as well as what I had just learned from my yoga business before to just set a very simple schedule for myself where I would just say I'm going to make a 40 hours work schedule. Whether I have a client or not. I'm going to come to the office and just be seen clients or figuring out how to get them.

Welcome, everybody. Today I'm very excited to have with us an extremely multi dimensional professional, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, to talk to us about harnessing anxiety for successful entrepreneurs and professionals. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Wade is so good to be back with you.

So Dr. Chloe is a licensed clinical psychologist and author. Her practice in New York City employs multiple therapists to serve high functioning business executives, people in the arts and everyday people seeking support with personal and professional goals. She's the author of a really valuable book, Nervous Energy Had to Harness the Power of Your Anxiety, which is endorsed by Dr. Dpac. Chip. So what I would want to just start out when I was listening to your book, I'm more of a listener than a reader. One of the first things that stuck out for me as an entrepreneur was your story of, first of all, how you got into the work and then how you applied your work to starting your own business.

Would you mind sharing with the audience a little bit about how you got into this and how it helped you get started?

Sure, Wade. So we were talking a little bit before about how I was actually a yoga teacher. And then I became a clinical psychologist because the work I was doing as a yoga teacher with people about meditation and their goals, with their body and their mind just got really exciting for me. And I wanted to learn more. So I got the PhD in clinical psychology. But one of the biggest fears for therapists and coaches everywhere is how do I get clients? How will I stay in business?

Right. And so I used what I know as a psychologist as well as what I had just learned from my yoga business before to just set a very simple schedule for myself where I would just say I'm going to make a 40 hours work schedule, whether I have a client or not, I'm going to come to the office and just either be seen clients or figuring out how to get them. And I would make really long list of things to do. And the list was super long.

In fact, I should say the list because there was more than one. But instead of feeling overwhelmed by that, I really told myself to take comfort in that because that meant that I would never be helpless. I would never be powerless. There would always be something that I could do. And the main way I broke down the two lists, which I think could be helpful for many entrepreneurs. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, and one thing that usually is helpful, and it was certainly helpful for me is that I had two major categories for the list.

So one was a list of things to do when I was feeling extroverted and energized and felt like being in front of people, felt like calling local doctors to see if we could become referral partners. And then another list of things to do when maybe I only had ten minutes. Or maybe I just wasn't feeling on, so to speak. And that might be things like setting up my newsletter or polishing my LinkedIn profile just kind of quiet activities. And as long as I had something to do, again, that to me, is the whole concept of nervous energy.

If I felt anxious, as long as I had something to do, that was really key, I think, not only to my success, but to my mental health as well.

Yeah, that's such a big thing I find when I'm most lost. I've either finished something older than I thought in the day that I scheduled, or I'm not sure what to do next. I think most entrepreneurs, if you done it for a while or if you're willing to do the work, your past the level of maturity to say yes, I'm willing to do the work. But sometimes, as you mentioned your book, you're used to somebody telling you what to do and then getting a guaranteed result for that, which again, if you're an employee, that works great.

But as you get to higher levels as an executive and you're working with higher level problems or as an entrepreneur where you're not sure what's going to actually generate results or impact or income, that can be a little harder. And I know that idea of just knowing to do something and to feel like your you're moving and making progress. Maybe can you maybe now take a step back a bit, share a little bit if you don't mind about what nervous energy. So people are used to the concept of anxiety.

And so that's something that kind of has this negative connotation or we want to avoid anxiety. There's pills for anxiety. We don't want to have anxieties that belief. And yet you seem to share an idea that we can tap into that we can do something with that.

Yeah. Thank you so much, Wade, because any time I get the chance, I do want to share that message, that anxiety doesn't always have to be something that we need to avoid or get rid of it. In psychology, anxiety actually has a healthy function, which is to stimulate preparation behaviors. The trick is just simply to recognize when we're getting that little thing, maybe a little extra adrenaline, even our minds will actually narrow their focus, and even our vision will narrow its focus a little bit. When we're under anxiety, instead of thinking that that's a bad thing, we just have to make sure we point that energy at the right target.

Which again, is why it's so helpful. I think, to have those lists of things that you want to do. And just like you said, wait, a good boss is one that does give you that list of stuff and just SaaS here, just work on these things. It's that executive function that sometimes the hardest thing, and we do ourselves a favor by doing that leg work and just keeping a list of what to do when we feel that gift of an anxious buzz. So then we just know exactly how to knock it out.

Knock out some tasks with that energy like Mother Nature intended.

I love that phrase, the anxious buzz. So my father is a high achiever comes from a family of high achievers, and his last name is Galt, and we actually use that as a verb. When you really don't want to do something, you got it, you force it, you push it through, and it's kind of a family joke. And there's a little bit of, I guess Narcis is a minute, but it's this idea of you just focus and you push. Now we also know our family that that energy out of whack is really socially awkward.

It's weird. It doesn't really work well. And I think a lot of people, at least for me, it was the idea of, okay, when do I turn this on? What's anxiety? Or sometimes people say, well, what's the difference? For example, between anxiety versus wait, maybe God, the universe is trying to tell me something. Maybe I'm going down the wrong path. How can somebody get a sense of whether or not something can be, let's say, constructive energy that's used to move forward versus no way. I keep hitting my head against a wall.

Or maybe this is something that maybe I'm anxious for a good reason. For example, we might feel anxiety if we're doing something we know we're not supposed to be doing, and in that sense, might be a good sort of redirector for us. How can somebody perhaps look at that when it's a little greater than okay? Am I breaking the law? It's okay. I've got this big project, but I might be missing out on time with my family, and I'm feeling anxious. How can we sort of I find a Compass or some way to honor what's important to us without having to feel like the anxiety is running us.

Yeah. So those are so many really good, multi layered questions. I'm just getting my pen so I can actually keep track of that way because there's so much there. And I love the idea of gulping it. I mean, I don't think of that truly as narcissistic. I think of that is just more of an embrace of your nervous energy, because that's exactly what I meant by it is that nervous energy is when we take our anxiety and just recognize that maybe it means we're nervous about something and that can actually be COVID converted into a productive zeal and energy.

And I think the question you're asking and let me know if I'm off track, but it sounds like you're seeing how do we tell the difference between anxiety? That is just that healthy anxiety stimulating us to prepare for something versus anxiety that's letting us know that we're actually on the wrong track. Right. So suppose that an entrepreneur is anxious because their sales are terrible and they haven't been able to get any revenue going and they're feeling anxious about it. And they're wondering, is this the kind of nervous energy that's supposed to stimulate me to prospect some new customers?

Or is this like a healthy awareness that I'm on the wrong track? Right. I would say the reason that the very first technique in my book is a mindfulness technique, and then the other eight techniques or various nervous energy harnessing techniques. But the reason the first one is a mindfulness technique weight is for the exact reason you're getting at, which is that first we really need to observe the anxiety and that's what mindfulness is about it's that metacognition or the observation either of ourselves or of what we're observing.

And I can't say, obviously, whether someone's anxious because they've got a bum product and sales are never going to go up or if it's because they haven't done the right thing. In fact, it's funny, Wade, because I actually interviewed Jim McCan recently, the founder of 1800 Flowers, and he loves to quote, Celebrate the Mistakes is one of the mottos of the company. And I asked him the same question, how do you know whether it's time to put in some Albo Greece and keep working and be persistent or whether it's time to celebrate a mistake?

And he told me that honestly, he wasn't even sure. Right. So I would say that I'm going to start by saying that there's no simple rubric to know if your anxiety is, you know, pushing you to go forward in a situation like that, or if it's a healthy awareness that it's time to give it up. But one thing I might start with with that healthy anxiety approach in that example of saying we've had no sales, what can we do about it is I would look at a technique from my book maybe called The Zone of Control, which is where we list all of the factors about the situation that we could potentially control.

So again, say that we've had zero sales. We might say to ourselves, okay, could I prospect for some more customers? Could I make sure that my sales copy is compelling? How is my SEO? Is my product getting in front of people? Have I tested my website to find out people are clicking on it, but they're abandoning shopping cart. Maybe the price is too high. I have. I experimented with those things. And so once you've kind of at least gone through all the basic logical steps that your anxiety could be stimulating you to take and you're like, okay, well, I've actually done all of those things, and I'm still hitting a wall.

Then maybe your anxiety could be stimulating you to talk to some trusted people in your network. As a psychologist, I would also say that evolutionary psychologists have speculated that part of the reasons that human beings evolved to such a sophisticated species is because of our gift of language, our ability to talk with other people. And this is still a little bit going back to that. My mindfulness. Part of the first technique is to observe the situation. And sometimes the way to do that is to talk about it with somebody else.

And if you talk about it with some trusted people in your network and everything that they tell you and everything you can think of has all been tried to try to boost sales or get customers or whatever, then you might be getting to that point is Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank says maybe then maybe it's time to take it out back and shoot it. Right. But the first step again is really to observe it and ask yourself, are there some preparation steps that my anxiety could be stimulating for me to take?

That would be, I think, a good starting point in that example you gave way.

Awesome. Thank you. I want to go back to that term you used. I think you said either nervous energy buzz or anxiety buzz. I forgot which way you worded it, but it's that moment. It sounds like when you have this level of energy and now there's this. I guess if you're aware, there's a decision point. If you're not aware, maybe it just happens or it feels like it just happens to you. How does the person identify that? And it sounds from what you're saying that there's a level of preparation involved of okay, well, what do I do now?

So I think of something my parents father told me there are certain situations you just stay out of. So you don't go to a party. That's an hour from your house where you have to drive back home and start drinking, because now you've already set yourself up for failure versus a different situation. How can a person because you just rattled off for those who aren't into business or just rattled off a bunch of fundamentally sound business practice, which it sounds like your professionalism or your anxiety has gotten you to do the research on so you're actually prepared of what will you do if your business isn't working?

How does a person identify that nervous anxiety buzz? And then I guess, is it being prepared ahead of time or what do they do to then do something with it, as opposed to freezing or turning inward or feeling paralyzed.

So to identify that nervous anxiety buzz one way that you can do it if you're not sure when and how that feels like for you. Because some people have more of a body felt sense. Some people have more of a kind of a mental reaction. And you mentioned freezing, which is natural for some people. Right. So the natural response to challenges for many people is fight, flight or freeze. And so to understand what that looks like for you and be able to identify it, a simple way is to just call to mind a situation that you know as anxiety provoking for you real or imagined, but ideally one that's real.

So people who are listening, if you can think of something in your life that you know does give you a little bit of anxiety that you're nervous about and just deliberately bring it up for the sole purpose of studying and observing and getting to know what happens when that topic comes up? Does your stomach kind of get cold and drop for some people, that's what happens. Do your shoulders go up some people again? Does your mind go blank? Right? Do you find yourself not wanting to connect with the topic?

Are you sitting there thinking to yourself? There's nothing in my life that makes me nervous. In psychology terms, we would typically call that avoiding because again, the idea is that there should be things in life that make you nervous. If we think about again, nervousness as a form of excitement and of interest and is a very natural thing that happens for people who are always trying to grow and push themselves out of their comfort zone. Nervousness would kind of happen a little bit naturally with that.

And so if people are curious to locate and identify and easily recognize it, I would just in a calm state of mind, bring those things up for yourself and label them and notice what happens with them.

Thank you. I think you definitely just reminded us of something that I think most entrepreneurs. Now, if you're not in some way a little nervous about something, you're probably not taking a risk doesn't mean you always have to be taking risks. You don't need to be a cowboy or cowgirl, but usually there's some sort of sense you're doing something you haven't done before. You're doing something that's unique, that's novel. And I think of something that Dr. Deepak Chopra mentioned. I know, as you mentioned, he endorsed your book, and one of his sayings that I love is that emotional turbulence masks a miracle.

This idea of you're getting excited about something or you're getting nervous about something, and it kind of depends on how you interpret it again. If there is this really fearful interpretation of something being new, and we see this in people all the time that then there's either a shutdown or digging in and again, fight flight or freeze, as opposed to, let's say, the curiosity of a child like, oh, I know what's coming next. Or a teenager. I was thinking of the person the cartoons that does know gravity exists and they run off the the edge.

And then they don't fall in the cartoons, of course, because they don't know that gravity exists. And they run right back. And you think about sometimes the entrepreneur that sometimes does something nobody knew as possible. And then they asked them, how do you do it? All these people fail. They're like, oh, I didn't know all those people failed. They have a different mindset. How can one cultivate perhaps a more positive relationship with anxiety and perhaps whether it's recalling, oh, these are the times it's worked out where things I want nervous.

How does somebody help themselves see that this can be a good thing?

Right. So I think the first step is just immensely reframe. It, which I found many people are actually pretty easily able to do when they just hear it articulated for them. Wade so thank you so much again, just for giving me the chance to share that the healthy function of anxiety actually is to stimulate preparation behaviors. And I think when people realize that it's actually kind of intuitive for them, and I think then they can give themselves permission to let go of phrases like no fear or when you feel anxious, just take a deep breath and let it go.

Right. People who have these kind of one size, that all answers about anxiety, which are again, usually about banishing. It like, no fear or take a deep breath and let it go, which sometimes work. I suppose that you're going to do some public speaking and you have this fear that you're going to perish right there on stage in certain situations that is helpful to take a deep breath and let it go. Or just remind yourself not to be afraid. But in other situations, like maybe several days before the presentation that healthy fear can actually help to stimulate you, you can say, Well, what am I afraid of?

I'm afraid my mind is going to go blank. Okay, well, can I cover up with three keywords that will always take me back to what I need? Can I have a visual aid for myself so that even if my mind does go blank, I've got visual cues. Can I have one or two friendly people in the audience? So I always have an ally. So again, actually paying attention to some of that fear and actually not letting it go can be very helpful. The benefit to that as well, I'll just say, is that it can actually help yourself esteem and can put you more at ease with yourself.

Because if you have this idea that there's the part of you that's nervous or fearful is somehow bad and that you have to get rid of it. People try to shout down that part of themselves. They not only deprive themselves of the helpful stimulation of preparation that that could be bringing, but they actually kind of disavow or put a negative label on a part of themselves. It's actually healthy and is only trying to help them. So again, I'm so thankful for the chance to share about the healthy function of that nervous energy.

Yeah. And I think of the idea I sometimes will tell my children, our children, my wife and I when they get really mad, sometimes they'll get frustrated and say, Look, I've done a lot of things that don't work. I've yelled, screamed of cursed. But a lot of the times I'm releasing my frustration, and then all the energy I had to make change is gone. Then I'm exhausted. You throw a tantrum, and then you're exhausted. You're like, okay, now what? And you're right back to square zero. And if that's your objective, well, okay.

But like you just said, if you want to actually move forward with this, maybe this energy is telling you something. Maybe it's challenging you something. Maybe, like you said as a speaker, it's inviting you to maybe do some more research. I've certainly found as somebody who is more from the wing at School of Entrepreneurialism, and I'm more of a because I can think of my feet. I got reinforced for that in the corporate world that nine times out of ten. If something didn't work out for me, it's because I didn't do enough preparation where there's more I could have done and sometimes going back through all the steps.

Okay. There were the breakdown was here at this step here. Like you mentioned the whole shopping cart process. They disconnected here or there, and it can be very simple to fix it if you do that kind of preparation. But you mentioned something that I found very that came up for me when I was listing your audio, and you just mentioned something how sometimes people will throw out this sort of anecdotal or just stereotypical advice. And definitely, it seems to me that some of the advice that is good for people who are perhaps not what you would describe as high functioning or higher functioning or aiming to be higher functioning.

How we want to word that it can work for the person that says, no, I just want to keep things chill. But for the person who says I want to evolve, it can actually be horrible advice. Would you mind sharing a little bit about that? As far as what is commonly considered to be good advice can be not so good for the person again, who either whether we want to call it higher functioning, higher aspiring somebody who wants to keep growing and doesn't want to just put it aside and put it away.

Yeah, definitely. Just to stay with that example, since everyone's kind of got it in their mind for a moment about, say, somebody who's got to do some public speaking, that type of anxiety that they're having. If it's two days before the event, then they want to use that nervous energy to do things again. From my book I mentioned, say, the zone of control exercise, like, what can they control? And then whenever they feel nervous about it, they want to focus on those things include including preparation, et cetera.

However, let's say that now the event is over, right? It's one day after the event and you're still feeling jacked about it. Your body is really zinged, and it's like you have this cognitive habit of thinking about the event all the time, because at one point, up until 24 hours ago, that was actually a productive habit for you. But the mind does just have habits. And so maybe it's now after the event. So at that point, suddenly focusing on the event and what you could have done or whatever doesn't make sense anymore.

A little bit of a debrief. And what can I learn for next time is good. But then it's like you're just spinning your wheels. So at that point, say, another technique from my book would be the New Mental short list. At that point, you could give your mind a new mental shortlist where you have five other things that you write on a list that you know are good ways to expand that healthy burst of adrenaline that is still floating around in your body. Whether that be going to the gym or having a massage or writing down a ten point checklist for yourself for your next talk just to make sure you don't forget certain things again.

But those things are only good to do to pivot off of that talk mentally, to really not only give yourself permission, but nudge yourself to start focusing on other things that becomes a healthy strategy after the event. But the same technique would be actually escapist and avoidant before the event to just say, Well, I'm really nervous about the talk, and there's a lot of preparation I could do, but whatever, I'm just going to get a massage and go to the gym. Right? So to your point, there's a sophisticated approach, a more nuanced approach for people who are truly focused on their own personal evolution and growth.

And that's going to mean that it's not going to be a one size fits all answer of what to do when you're feeling nervous. It's just always rolling up your sleeves and working harder is not going to always be the solution. Sometimes we need to learn how to pivot on to something else or do some deep breathing exercises and just learn how to calm our body down. And sometimes we actually need that energy, and we just need to learn how to lean in with it. So again, that's why the first technique in my book is a mindfulness technique.

So that we can observe what it is that we need to to solve, and then the next eight techniques are going to be appropriate in some situations that not appropriate in others.

Awesome. Can you tell us a little bit more about the three part breath, how it works and what it's rooted in and how person can use it?

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. And I will just say also that in your show notes, I know you're having Nervous Energy book. Com. So if anyone is saying, okay, well, this all sounds good, but how will I remember this? Of course, they can replay Wade episode here or at Nervous Energy book. Com. You can get a video of me going through the technique, but with the three part breath, I love it because in Buddhism we understand that mindfulness has three levels the first way that we build our mindfulness skills, which, by the way, I like to think of mindfulness is meta cognition, the ability to think about your thoughts and to observe your thoughts so that you do understand.

Okay. I'm having the sort of anxiety that means I need to lean in or I'm having the sort of anxiety that means I'm too keyed up and I need to let go. You need metacognition. You need mindfulness to have that overarching presence of mind. So the three part breath, even though it sounds like it's just a breathing exercise, it's actually a mindfulness exercise. So what we do is we first start by just observing our breath and doing absolutely nothing to try to change it. The first step, as I explain in the book, is step zero, which is just to observe your breath without doing anything to change it.

And again, it's very interesting in Buddhism, by learning to observe things like either objects or just our breath, we graduate to learning to observe complex things like our thoughts and our feelings and our emotions. And this was all just in Buddhist literature for thousands of years that there were these three levels of mindfulness mindfulness of an object, then mindfulness of the breath, and then mindfulness of what they call abstract objects like thoughts and emotions. And surprise. Surprise. Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins. All these foundations are now discovering that in fulness of objects and of the breath really does help people to figuratively get a grip on their mind and their thoughts and their emotions.

So with all that said, step zero is just to practice observing your breath without making any big judgments about it. Then you go ahead and you exhale and then you inhale on the belly, balloons with air. Then continuing that inhalation, you feel your middle chest widen and then three all the way up. Your upper chest rises vertically as you feel what it feels like to hold that full breath of air. Then you pause for a moment at the top of the inhale and then exhale just the upper chest, and then you exhale just the middle chest, maybe even feeling what it feels like for your body to pull away from your clothing as you exhale.

And then finally the belly empties completely. I like to guide people to pull the Nable to the spine, just taking your belly button in to fully expel the air. And then you can repeat that a couple of times. Finally, then you just sit without trying to control your breath and you observe again your breath. Now, that is a very interesting exercise because people will usually just say, oh, well, that was nice. That was relaxing, or it feels good to get air and oxygen. All of that is 100% true.

Those are all good reasons to do the three part breath, but the real trick that those things are just side benefits. The real benefit from it is that you're actually building your mindfulness skills if you're able to start articulating describing to another person or in a Journal. Gee, I noticed that when I first started this, my breathing was shallow, and I noticed that when I was doing that three part breath, I had a lot of concerns about it. I was doing it right, or I noticed I felt in a hurry to get it done.

And then afterwards I noticed I felt X, Y or Z. What you're really doing there is you're building your ability to notice and describe your interior life and psychologists have confirmed over and over that, of course, that reduces stress because we feel more understood and connected with our social support network. It increases our ability to solve problems because like I was mentioning earlier, if a person does hit a wall with their sales, being able to just easily go and talk to someone about it and find the words to describe it all that helps you to get solutions.

Plus talking about it and describing it. Build your vocabulary and ability to describe what's happening in your mind, which again is just Buddhist have known it for thousands of years, but now many medical places are confirming that this helps people to reduce stress and solve problems.

That's awesome. I remember one of my professors and classes I think was addictions. We were studying my Masters degree, and he talked about the idea. He said, okay, if anybody in the audience is a smoker, whatever. He's first in what everybody does, he want you to take. He had us take 20 deep breaths in and out, maybe about three to five second hold in and out. And he said, Any of you all smokers, raise hand, he says, and does that feel familiar? He's like, yeah, that's what it's like when we smoke without the cigarette.

It's like, yeah, he's like, you might find that it's actually the deep breathing that makes you feel relaxed more than perhaps the nicotine or the routine. But it was just something that when people think because I've heard so many people will talk about breathing techniques it's just breathing. I breathe all the time. Wait. I'm always doing a breathing technique. It's like, no, that's very different. There's something else going on, and I really love the way you explain that. There one of the things and this would probably be, I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, maybe the biggest question a lot of them have is you and I talked about this idea of there's almost these two Feaster famine times in an entrepreneur's life, and sometimes especially when you're getting started to go back and forth.

There's the busy season where I'm making a lot of sales. I have a lot of money coming in, and I almost have no time on an extreme and I'm worried because I have no time and I'm missing out of my family. Or can I keep up with the demand? And then there's anxiety there and on the flip side there's, oh, gosh, I don't have any sales yet. I'm building a business or it's my slow season. How can somebody maybe or how have you used these techniques to really channel again that energy into something that's productive rather than simply being affected by impacted upon by some outside force to you?

Yeah. So those are great questions. I know we've talked before in this episode about a couple of examples of for the person who has no sales, and how can they convert that nervous energy into something productive? But for the person on the other side, as you said, the faster famine who's super like, kind of almost overwhelmed with work and they're troubled because they're not getting enough time with their family, which I also have those examples in my book as well, because that's something that happens with a lot of people who are high achievers.

Right. One thing I would say is to just go right back to that mindfulness for one moment of again, being able to take your interior life and put it into words so to be able to say to your spouse, honey, I know that I haven't been available because I've been so busy with work. But I hope you know that I'm doing that because of my desire to provide for our family. And it's really important to me. I would feel better if I could have a reassurance from you that you understand that and that you appreciate that.

And that as a couple as a family, we're on the same page about that. Right. So something as simple as that type of communication can be extremely helpful. Also, then I would look at another technique from my book, which is called Thought replacement, and it's very different from Affirmation. So if people are listening to this and they think it reminds them of Affirmations, I just want to say I like African information, too, but thought replacement is different. So suppose that that person who's busy all the time because they're trying to provide for their family has that conversation I mentioned with their spouse.

Their spouse is on the same page with them, but they still have this kind of negative voice in their mind that just says, You're a bad parent or you're a bad spouse because you're not there. What you would do then is you would have a thought replacement that says, I'm actually an excellent provider for my family, and my family is very thankful for what I'm doing, and every effort I'm making right now is for my family. And you would memorize that when I have clients that have a thought replacement, I actually even demand that they are able to tell me the word count on it because I want them to be able to say it as automatically as if it were the Alphabet, and they had to say it at two in the morning.

And so what you do then is whenever that nagging kind of just old thought comes into play of saying, I'm a bad spouse because I'm not there. You specifically repeat that statement to yourself, and if it doesn't feel natural to you, don't worry. I tell people it's the same thing as if you slouched for 20 years, and then you learned to stand up straight. That wouldn't feel natural to you either. People don't feel natural when they're standing up straight for the first time in 20 years, but it's actually the correct way to stand.

So thought replacement would certainly be something that could help you once you've done again, those mindfulness skills of identifying what it is that's going on and being able to talk about it with the people that matter then that really empowers you to truly have a thought replacement. That includes I've talked about this with my family. My family supports this. I'm getting doing this for my family, and I know it's the right thing to do.

Yeah. And I love the way you made sure that there was a conversation with the family. This wasn't just you whitewashing something saying, oh, I'm going to come up with an affirmation and steamroll over people and say, Well, I'm a provider. It covers everything because that again, feels more like an avoidance as opposed to incorporating them in that decision. That's awesome. Thank you. Wow. There is so much I know you and I could talk on this topic for much longer. Thank you so much for what you've shared.

I think there's so much here that our listeners are going to take to. As we mentioned, we will share in the notes the link for the book. Can you share where people can reach out to you just in general?

Yeah, absolutely. And I am also looking at putting together a master class around the book. So Nervous Energy book dot com is a great place to go for that. I'm also all over social media. So in the show notes as well, we'll have Dr. Chloe. Com Hello, which will have all of my social media handles my free newsletter all of that kind of stuff. And as I mentioned, if anyone out there does get the book and likes it and wants to sign a screenshot of any reviews that you left on Amazon or goodies, I do have a special gift because this is my way of dealing with my own nervous energy of needing needing those reviews.

They help me so much in the algorithm. So thanks for the chance to share my knowledge as well as my need with your audience.

Wade awesome thank you so much and thank you for modeling that and for those of you listing as always, look forward to helping you impact more people and make more money in less time. Don't you do best so you can better enjoy your family, your friends and your life. Thanks for listening.