A lot of what drives our overdoing and overproduction is our ego. And our ego is here to protect us. Our ego is here to make sure that the opposing flanks on our right and left can't get near us and that the competing businesses can't overtake us and all of that stuff. But our ego is all about imaginary fear, so we're constantly running from perils that don't currently exist. Welcome, everybody. Today I'm excited to have Suzanne Falter with us to talk about how to work self care into an extremely busy life. Thanks so much for joining us today, Suzanne. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Wade. My pleasure. So Suzanne is the author of multiple help self titles, including The Extremely Busy Woman's Guide to Self Care. She hosts the Self Care for Extremely Busy Win Podfest. And if you just look at the amount of podcast, blog posts, books she's written, she really does a whole lot. And so I'm really excited to have her here. Suzanne, would you just start out and just share a little bit about your story and what got you involved in this work? Well, I was a stranger to self care, as many of us are real self care when this all began for me in 2012. I was a workaholic who had just been forced to give up a lucrative marketing coaching business because I was working too much and I burned out and I got really mired in just too much going on. I couldn't hear myself think. I didn't know if I was coming or going. And instead of slowing down and cutting some clients and backing off from some programs, my business partner and I just threw in the towel on the whole thing and I walked away not knowing quite what I was going to do next. And I live in Northern California and I was kind of wandering around. I didn't have a place to live because my relationship had also just ended and I had left the home we had just moved into and I was really kind of lost. But the great thing was my daughter Teal had come out to California and was something of an anchor for me, 22 years old, and three months later she dropped dead from a medically unexplainable cardiac arrest. So that set me back for sure to an extreme. I didn't work for two years after her death because I was just in shock and grief basically. But what got me through it was learning from her through all these journals she left behind and really understanding what I had to do to get my act together. Because, you know, when you are pushed to an extreme situation by life, life will show you what you really need to do. Life will take care of you and cover you and show you what to do, but you've got to be able to pay retention. So my first lesson in self care was to tune into that by asking myself what I needed and starting to listen. This is not a question way that I had ever asked myself. I was too busy on what are you going to do next? Who's waiting for something? What can you produce? And as you mentioned in the beginning, I've produced a lot. I've been a writer for 40 years. Oh, gosh, I think I've published 15 books. I've had multiple podcasts. My first one in 2005. I've been busy. And being busy is sometimes a cover for not feeling our feelings and not owning what's really going on in our life. So when Till was in the emergency room, she had been revived to the point where she had a heartbeat for six days. But her brain was severely damaged, so she never regained consciousness. And we had to take her off of life support at the end of six days. And it was a harrowing experience, obviously. But it was also very instructive to me because one of the things I really learned when she was lying there stretched out, surrounded by machines and all kinds of stuff all over her body, she was barely visible. What I really saw was that she was going to die. And I was going to have to learn how to cope with this immediately. And I was going to have to become a much stronger person than I actually was, because behind all that overwork and rushing around and accomplishment and money and all of that was a lost, frightened, just completely dumbfounded little person. And I had to start to listen to her and take care of her. So I began after her death and the burial and all of that. I began by reading her journals and teal was the opposite of me. She was a freespirited young woman who went all over the world with her guitar in her backpack. And she was a blue singer. And she sang in the street in countries all over the world and made friends everywhere she went. And her focus was on being present. She really didn't want money. At the end of her life, I happened to ask her the day before she died, hey, do you need some money? And she said, I'm all set. And she said, I have groceries. And she paid the rent. And she had $2 in her bank account. Two, one, two. That would not be I don't need money for me. But she's like, I got a couple of Bucks. I'm good. So honestly, I learned a lot about what really matters. I learned about listening myself, and I made some dramatic changes. The first being I ended my business coaching business, just like done. Never again, because it wasn't what I was supposed to be doing, and I knew it. But then the next piece of self care was just to be gentle with myself and really learn about self compassion and really learn about honoring the little voice within and not do it, not pushing myself too hard. Believe me, I tried. I tried so hard during that two month period. Two year period. Excuse me. I learned so much about how limited I really was. I would say, okay, this morning I'm going to go for a hike. It was insane. I'd show up to a hiking group and I'd see everybody standing in the parking lot at the trailhead, and I just turn around and leave. Because I couldn't handle talking to other people, I would just burst into tears and start sobbing. It was like, no, this is not the place to be. But in my mind, I was like, go for it. Go have a great hike. And honestly, I needed to become quiet. So I tried to relaunch my business a few times because I got panicky about money. Even though I had copious savings and I certainly had enough to live carefully, which I was doing, I was being really guided to let go and just see what happens and live in the unknown for a while now. Two years of the unknown. It's a long time. Really long time. And I tried to start that business several times. And each time hackers would take down the learning platform. It's just unbelievable how many times that business had to die before it was really dead, because it had been pretty secure. And then unbidden, out of nowhere came an opportunity from an investor who wanted to hire me to do something I hadn't done for 15 years, which was right. Fiction. Like I said, I've been a writer for decades, and I had published a novel with Random House long time ago, let's just put it that way. And so I started writing fiction. And I have now done nine books for this investor. And it has brought me to this place. And along the way, I have built my self care podcast. And I published a book on selfcare with a major publisher. And I found that I had a lot to say about selfcare. And a lot of it was taught to me in absentia by Teal. Wow, that's the story. There's so much to that. There's so much to that. And listening to life's messages, being open when things just aren't flowing. My mother has been she's still alive. It always teaches me, like, when you're trying to do something, there's just, like, random stuff that's inexplicable, like, why is this and this? And this literally feels like a conspiracy. No kidding, right? And then, of course, at least some people say it's how you see it. Is it conspiring against you or conspiring for you? If it's pushing you in the right direction, maybe it's conspiring for you. And I'm curious your thoughts on that, because I think most people listing right now don't have a story that, at least by most standards, is as dramatic intense as what you just shared. And yet it feels to me one of the things you said, which is so true, and I find it with my clients, is that we will busy ourselves that, quote, the majority of humans problems come from their inability to sit quietly in their room or just sit in their stuff. What would you say, stepping back a little bit from you? Because what I want to make sure right now there's people listening like, oh, my God, I could never do what she did. Well, you've written books and I know so many people. That would be so hard. But what would you say then to the person that says, okay, look, maybe I don't have that going on, but do I really need to wait for something such a profound wake up call? What does it sound like when maybe the invoice is trying to tell you something and maybe you're not hearing it, but it's kind of knocking, even though it, in my experience, usually doesn't hit you over the head, though I guess sometimes it does. What would you say to that person that maybe can't fully relate to the impact of what you've experienced and yet feels that sense of, yeah, I'm not where I'm supposed to be. I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do, but I'm scared. Okay? So scared is the word, because this is a process of fear management. When you are put in an extreme situation like mine, you don't have time to worry about fear. You're just doing life and you are accepting the circumstances or you're not. I could have just kept working. I tried, actually, until a business coach who is one of my best friends convinced me to let go. And I said, okay, I'll stop working for two months. And two months became two years. So fear is very much ever present. And you're going to be afraid whether you do it or not. That's the thing. You're going to be afraid to change. And if you change, you're going to be afraid because you changed. Does that make sense? Because, yeah, you can stay in your secure place. You can stay in your secure, not aligned place, but if you do, you're missing an opportunity. Because here's my theory. We are all born perfectly aligned. We know what our needs are. And when we're little babies, we cry and cry and cry and we let people know. And over time, life shows us we can't always meet those needs. So by the time we become adults and independent thinking, feeling people, we assume our needs are no longer a priority. Everybody else's are. And I think this is true for men and women in different ways. And I think that we are, as entrepreneurs, very much wired to avoid our own needs because, hey, we've got to produce. We've got to come up with the bottom line. We've got to keep this mad machine going. I come from the place now where it's worth the 10,000 foot view to see if the place is working. I have made changes in the last few years in my business where I have been chugging along, doing the same social media pattern or process for editing my podcast, et cetera, week after week, month after month, year after year for some time. And it turned out those were systems that had to go or were outdated because they just weren't returning anymore. But do we want to make those changes? What if that one big media break becomes from that one Twitter poster, we get ourselves all convinced that making big changes is fraught with peril. But in fact, you're afraid if you do, you're afraid if you don't. That's the bottom line. Yeah. Wow. That's so true. I know just that basic concept. And I've definitely lived this at different times because at least the last 15 years or so, I've been more of a lifestyle solopreneur to be able to be present for my family and kids. So when I've made more money, I've cut back hours as opposed to building up a nest egg. And I used to have a bigger nest egg and I don't as much. And so I've lived in that sense of okay, I usually don't plan more than a few months at a time. But then there's moments where, okay, I'm in my busy season, I'm making money. Oh, my gosh, we'll advertise free time. I've got so much money, but not enough time. And then flip side, okay, now I'm not in my busy season. And, oh, my gosh, I have so much time, but I don't have money. And I got to hustle. And I just think of something Wayne Dyer once said in one of his audios we talked about, if you have to, let's say, take a shower in three minutes and you got to be somewhere that you can be stressed while you take that shower. And in three minutes you'll still be sweating and you'll need to shower again. Or you can just take the shower and just say, okay, I'm going to do what I can. But to your point, yeah, there's going to be fear either way. And I think there's something about understanding that. But I love you and unpack something else you just mentioned, I think is so huge because a lot of people, rightfully so, there's a lot of talk about women's needs not being met or asked about. And over the last 10, 15, 20 years. And that's such a huge conversation. And yet I can tell you as a father and definitely as an entrepreneur, but uniquely as a father, at least the way I was raised in a Western society, as a male and the provider role and our sense that in a different way, we're supposed to eat it. We're not supposed to talk about to our wives about why I'm insecure that I might not be able to pay the bills this month or whatever it might be. We're supposed to eat it and just move forward, like in different ways that perhaps women are supposed to as the spouse, just support the family and support the kids. And again, different roles or different scripts, but the same concept. What do you think? Or what have you found for people can help them identify if they're in that, and then what's? That perhaps first step they can do to at least do something about it, not necessarily flip the switch overnight, not do a 180, because that also just feels so much more scary. But start moving in a healthier, more loving, more of a self care type direction. Okay, so you've brought up some really good points. And the first thing I would do would be and I have a little background on this now, particularly because just recently I did a show with Ted Faith who was talking about self care for men. And we were really talking about exactly this issue because one of my big basics on self care is to ask for damn help. You do not have to do this all alone. And that picture of men being the big provider, men being the sole source of strength and income, and all that stuff is like. But we're all wired to believe it. And it also anticipates that women will not be able to help to the degree that they now do. Women are empowered in the workplace far more than they were when that whole cultural Moray began. So the first thing to do is ask the partner if it happens to be a woman for help and to sit down and talk about it and to be vulnerable, because in your vulnerability is actually your strength. And learning how to ask for help was a big lesson for me and something I write about a lot, because we are absolutely incapable of doing this life in the way we'd like to do it alone. That is not the point. The point is to surround ourselves with supportive others who can get on the same team, and we in turn can help them. The other thing I would say is one of the big dilemmas and particularly true in the entrepreneur world and business owner world is overproduction. We believe that we must do everything ten times better bigger fancier, more complicated than everybody else. I mean, all you have to do is look at the tech world and how electronic devices keep getting rejiggered and reimagined constantly. It's a never ending process. Very nice to have a better camera in my iPhone. Yes, but do we really need it? And we do this with our own behavior. We think we have to work till ten at night because otherwise our Tik Tok feed won't have quite enough videos in it, or our online course won't have quite enough classes in it. It's always more and probably too much than enough. I say that's always compensation for believing that we personally are enough because we walk around with this deep belief that we are flawed. And we get that probably from the slings and arrows of childhood, whatever. It doesn't matter. We think we're flawed and we think we got a lot of compensating to do. And, you'll know, if this is true for you because you'll be saying, oh, no, that's not me. I'm not flawed. I'm great. In fact, I'm so great. Or you're listening to this going, I think I need to turn this Podfest off right now. Truthfully. Hey, welcome to the team flawed. I really like being flawed because it removes the pressure and it allows me to be me and live in full acceptance. And one of the great things I learned from that period of the two years when I was grieving Teal's death, and really, it was more like five years was that not only am I enough, I'm enough because I am flawed, I'm enough because I've forgiven myself for being flawed and because I no longer have a perfectionist tendency to need to overcompensate all the time. That is so huge. Something I try to teach my kids is the whole thing. Like, for example, right now, this is one of the few times usually I shave before an interview. I'm 50 years old. I was raised in a time where you shaved to show respect. And of course, even that has changed over time. Yeah. And then in my head is, okay, well, what's my brand on three day weekend? Should I have shaved million thoughts going on. That's what I'm saying. And this is something and it's not like horrendous, it's not uncapped, but it's one of those things. And then, of course, we can all see our hairs that are out of place. There's all these things that we see. And some of my mom always used to tell me she's been such a great benefit for me. She's like, wait, I hate to break it to you, but not everybody's looking at you specifically and that intently. And maybe that gives you another issue that you need to work on. But they're really not contemplating you at every single moment because they're busy. Guess what? In the middle of their stuff and figuring out what's going on with them. What's so interesting to me? I love what you've shared about just the whole again, that whole paradox of working harder, not necessarily being more. So many people have a hard time with this idea of how do I work less and make more, how do I work less and get better results? And for me, part of the answer is some of the time you're just working on foolish stuff or stuff that's not productive or like you said with your podcast, and I can resonate with the same thing. I've done it this way for a while, and yet, but okay, I'm not seeing results. But what if I changed? And the first thought is, what if I get less likes? What if I get less dopamine hits as opposed to, well, it could be better. Or if it doesn't work, you just go back. It's not the end of the world. Yeah. Because you know what? Everything turns out, right. Everything turns out anyway. One of the things that you mentioned, me. Oh, no, you're fine. One of the things you mentioned in our pre interview, which I thought was so interesting, I wonder if you share the story about it is you mentioned that one of the best publishing offers you ever received you got while you're on vacation. And that was a bit of a revelation. You and again, to some people who are listening, perhaps something that's not what they would normally think. Yeah, that was pretty recent. That was for the audiobook of The Extremely Busy Woman's Guide to Self Care. And I had gone to Hawaii with my wife, and it was like something I'd wanted to do for 25 years. I'd always wanted to go to Hawaii. Had never been. And there we were on the big island and living the life. And I get this call from my agent, she's like, guess what? You just sold your audiobook rights and they want you to narrate. Which was so exciting because that was, like, my fantasy. I do believe that when we get our life into alignment, which is not overworking, not doing it all alone, not over producing, being a person, doing the right work in the right place at the right time, all of which requires tuning in and just paying close attention to your inner voices. That's when things like this happen, they don't happen when we're pushing and forcing. And, hey, I have an incredibly long history as somebody who tried to force reality decades. Okay, maybe 55 years. And I'm here to tell you, it's incredibly overrated, doesn't produce results, just exhausts you. And you have no control. Ultimately, Teal's death taught me in an extreme way that I have no control over the events of this life, nor do you. What we can do is produce to the best of our degree. And that's all about our personal satisfaction. Did we actually make something happen that we're proud of? Do we know that it helped people or made our contribution or developed our purpose in this life? Did we learn the appropriate lessons? Those things are present then? Yeah. Job well done. Did I get a million likes? No. And who cares? Because ultimately, none of it matters. That is not what matters. Not at all. What matters is the personal experience for me. And I want you to know one of the big things Tele had written on many, many pages in her notebooks was just be. That means to me, you don't have to push. You don't have to strive, be present to what's happening around you, even if it means sitting in your backyard and watching a Hummingbird or watching spring develop or noticing how beautiful the ice crystals are, whatever it is, or maybe it's sitting with your grief and feeling. It sounds like really antithetical to running a successful business. But within that platform, you will find moments of joy that will fuel you. And suddenly you'll be taking that shower and get that insight for that big idea and exactly who to ask for help and exactly what to call it or whatever. And there you will be in your moment of letting go and having the success and the results come to you. Absolutely. There's so much there. I know one of the things that I've contemplated, I'm very aware that compared to other people in the world, I have it. Well, at least financially. Now, of course, there's different types of abundance. There's material, financial, there's relationships, there's confidence. There's so many different ways a person can be abundant or lack it. And at times, there would be the sense of, okay, well, gosh, do I have too much or almost feeling, how can I expect more? Life is already so good. And what I've found is I talked with a lot of people who deal with that that's in their mind. And then so there's this sense of, well then, okay, I need to be worthy of it. So I've got to be busy. I've got to work hard because I've already literally been given the golden ticket in some ways in life. Okay, well, now I have to earn it. And maybe in some ways that can inspire one to really work towards something. And yet it feels like one of those traps where it's like, okay, well, let me just prove to everybody that I'm busy as opposed to actually focusing on what gets results. So how do people, where does this busyness come from? Because you mentioned some of it comes from our habits, our morays, our understandings of what things are supposed to look like. How does that happen? Because a lot of us go in and when we first start out, we're like, I just need to get done what I need to do to survive. And I don't know about you, but when I first started an entrepreneur, I was probably most in tune with exactly what I needed to do because I had to be I figured out very quickly. And then as I got a little more room, well, then the ideas of what the sheds and what it should look like came in and then I almost lost an edge. So how do we start creating this when it might not even be necessary? You just answered your own question there, my friend, because it's all about fear, like I said earlier, and I think that's really true. The beginner's mind is very clear because we don't know yet about all those offers that are so tempting to get this social media optimization or that SEO or whatever. It's like we don't know all the fun stuff at the Bazaar that we can spend our dough on and our time producing. We don't know that we could be doing video cast and a podcast. And again, I'm coming back to that perspective that none of this matters. I realize it sounds like it matters profoundly because, hey, wait a minute. I just invested all this time and money into starting my business. It really matters to me. And how am I going to pay for food for the kids and such? That does matter. But doing it perfectly is what doesn't matter. Making wrong making so called mistakes is actually critical to your development. So what matters is continuing to tune in to yourself. And for those who don't have a meditation practice because they can't sit still, I would recommend walking in nature for at least half an hour every day with no agenda. Just walk in nature. Allow yourself to see the trees, see the leaves, see what's under your feet. Go to the same damn park every day if you have to, whatever it takes. Because when you're in nature, there is something to it. There's been research done that says 20 minutes in a walk in nature is equivalent to 2 hours of walking in a city or an urban environment in terms of its impact on your nervous system. So it's a way to let go. Just as meditation is, meditation forces you to listen to how intensely busy your thoughts are and how cranked up our brains get. I mean, you really articulated that beautifully weighed because this is the process of letting go. This is a profound process of letting go. And letting go is actually one of the things that my listeners are looking for help with all the time because it's so hard to let go. And it's hard to let go because we are terrified that the bottom will drop out. Well, as someone who's had the bottom drop out, I want to tell you that it's actually an unbelievable opportunity for growth. It's a catalyst for making your life the best you could possibly be, albeit missing certain people or certain things. I will say now, I am the person that I wish I had been during Teal's lifetime and I am in a much happier marriage than I was at the time. I am doing the work that I am here to do. There's no question about it. And every day is simple. And when prior to her death, every day was complicated, I was stressed out. I was in a very toxic relationship, and I was actually living in a city that I did not resonate with wasn't the right place for me. Now I am here in Oakland, California. And what I know to be true is that when you embrace life the way it is and you understand that this is all happening for a reason, that business that you're dying to build that can't get off the ground, maybe it's because it's supposed to be a catalyst to something else. Maybe it's because the failure of that business will teach you what people really want, or it will teach you what you're really supposed to do that will make you happy. Yeah, I forget where I learned this or learned as soon as it's true. So where I heard this, but the idea of just the futility of trying to control life, because probably one of the biggest realizations for people, if you can ever make it, is that, no, you don't have control, and that doesn't have to be scary. It still can be, of course. But either way, it's like when you get into it, and I understand this conversation, when you get into a logical conversation of, let's say, whether it's the pandemic or gun control or driving cars without seatbelts, there's all sorts of data that will say, well, this seemed like it was more dangerous than this, but that's actually more dangerous. Assuming the data is accurate, there are certain things that are far more dangerous that we don't even think about. And then there are certain things that will ruminate about and obsess over to say, oh, no, if this happens and the truth and all of it, for all the things that are going wonderfully and all the preparations we can make, things can go differently. How would you say then, from your perspective or what you've seen? It seems to me that the entrepreneur who can't in some way embrace the possibility that there's some sort of inspiration, divine God nature, greater force or organizing force, whatever, I don't pretend to know the answers, but how much more perhaps stressful that is, if you don't have some sense of that or at least haven't even at some point experienced that, you know what? I thought something was supposed to go a certain way, and it worked out a different way that turned out to be better. So if you want to call it trusting life or just something, how would you say that promotes that busyness or that obsession with extra work? If a person can't in some way trust that maybe their way isn't always the best way and maybe that there might be something better for them if they're open. So a lot of what drives our overdoing and overproduction is our ego, and our ego is here to protect us. Our ego is here to make sure that the opposing flanks on our right and left can't get near us and that the competing businesses can't overtake us and all of that stuff. But our ego is all about imaginary fear, so we're constantly running from perils that don't currently exist. A lot of our world is organized around principles of things that are not actually happening right now. And is there a God? Isn't there a God or a universe or organizing principle? I couldn't possibly say. But what I know to be true is that when I trust the flow of life to carry me where I need to go. I get there, and I have every day of my 63 years, even when the bottom dropped out. So supposedly losing a child is one of the worst things that can happen to you. And I think living in the world we're living in, it's one of many terrible things that can happen to you. But what I do know is that at such moments, you have resources you had no idea that you had. I did. Many, many, many years ago. I did the Outward Bound course, which is an extreme wilderness experience where people who are kind of city folks like me get taken off to, like, an island, and you have to live in the woods for three days. For me, the big terrifying moment was rappelling down a 90 foot cliff. And I had never been on a rope in my life. And the person belaying me at the top was a 70 year old grandmother from New Jersey who had also never done this. Pretty scary, right? And I stood at the top and cried for half an hour while everybody else went down. And then finally the instructor said, okay, we don't want to eat lunch. Do you really have to come down now or you're up there and we'll be leaving you behind. So I had no choice. And I got on that rope, and the first thing I did was slip, and I caught myself, and I didn't even know how I caught myself, but I did. And then I just went down the damn rope, and my hands were black from gripping the rope by the end of it. And I was really terrified. But this strength and this calm overtook me, and that was the point of the whole course, was to discover, when push comes to shove, that you have resources you don't even know about, which you do not normally access, and your ego is not going to bother to tell you about. So given that so much of our life is spent in fear instead of surrender and in resistance instead of acceptance, this is what pushes us to overproduce, to believe we'll never be enough, to constantly run in circles trying to catch ourselves when, in fact, selfcare demands. We ask ourselves every day the question, what do I need right now? And then we do our best to provide it. I might need a nap. I might need to set a boundary with someone at work. I may need to fire a client. I might need to spend a little quality time with my kid. I might need sex. What do I need right now? Your body will tell you. Tail wrote a lot in her Journal about listening to your body and how critically important that was. And, you know, her body just told her things. You know, her body also just chose to end her life inexplicably. But she had no idea that was coming. None whatsoever. Nobody did. And so our bodies are always giving us the answers. But will we listen? Yeah. I think the thing that I take from all of this is there's this sense of analogy I sometimes use as an athlete. If the athlete has a big game coming up in a week, none of us would suggest that they worked out at their most intense workouts for the next six days. We know somewhere they need rest, they need some sort of hydration nutrition preparation, good sleep, and we would expect that. So if the Olympic trial is coming up or whatever it is, we would know that. And for some reason we've told ourselves that we can cheat that system or that system or that because somewhere somebody else is not playing by those rules, they're going to get ahead of us. And what I'm hearing you say in so many different ways is if you really can't be fully present, and especially in a very often a knowledge economy that's based on relationships and intelligence, if you're overtired, if you're cranky, if your needs aren't getting met the same way a physical athlete can't show up, if they've been working out, running a marathon every day, seven days to prepare for the marathon, that we're not going to be able to do that. And while it seems to be a great idea that there are costs to being extremely busy, maybe it's kind of almost not a last thought, at least. My main last question, what are those costs for the person that's even perhaps listing right now and thinking, okay, they're still kind of in a little bit of a Woohoo place with where they're talking. What's the bottom line? What's it costing me? Because I love this conversation, but I know some people might say, okay, wait, I'm still looking for that. Like, okay, so did it matter in case they're not seen? What does it cost people when they're over busy? All I can say is personal happiness. Personal happiness. I was a workaholic for 30 years, and I was never completely happy. I stopped working so hard. I'm a lot happier. My income has remained the same. That's what's always shocking. It's like a little embarrassing and somewhat humbling to realize you don't have to do this much stuff, but don't believe me. I think the ultimate experience is to experiment. Pick a corner of your life where you could let go or make a small change or do things differently or set a boundary and see what happens. Don't cut and run unless you want to pick an area to experiment with in your personal life, in your business, whatever it is, where you're going to honor that inner voice and you're going to see what happens, and then you have the choice to apply it to multiline places. I actually think that's the way to go because cutting and running is traumatic as someone who did it multiple times in my life. But it's also brave and it's bold and it inspires you. You inspire yourself. You know what I'm saying? Some of this is about resonance. For some people listening to this, this won't be super applicable. But for other people, they're going to be like, seriously head nodding and they're going to really understand that they have to take a hard look. And I love going in and looking very 10,000 foot at my whole business and seeing where the gaps are. What would I really like to let go of what has played its time out, what isn't really working? We often plug away at things thinking, just another month I'm going to have this thing. Well, how much joy is there in it? Till was a great believer in honoring the joy. She would work as a waitress, get a little money, go to the airport and just pick a place and go. She wouldn't even know where she was going to go until she left. And sometimes it was so magical. I remember she did a trip to Thailand where she met a group of kids her age, and they all invited her out to their beach house, and she stayed with them for a week, and they all made music. And she was just, like, amazed at that experience. And then other times she had to spend like two nights in the airport because she couldn't figure out where she needed to go. So everything is an experiment. But when you hold life loosely and you don't yank the reins, miracles and beautiful opportunities can, in fact, come to you unbidden. Come to you unbidden. That's the key. Wow. There's just so much. Thank you so much. I'm sure a lot of people there's a lot we've talked about that's resonating here. And just for those, I like to have all these other things we were going to talk about that are even deeper and more awesome. I think you're going to get a lot, actually, if you also check out Suzanne's podcast and I'll put all the links below in the show notes. But sure, a little bit. If you don't mind the book, the podcast, if people are inspired by what you and I are talking about, where is the best place for them to connect with your work? Come on over to my show, Selfcare for Extremely Busy Women. It's on all the podcast platforms, and I have a lot of self care experts, and I do some talking myself and share a lot of ideas about this kind of inner game of self care. And if you really want to get hands on my book, The Extremely Busy Woman's Guide to Selfcare, which turns out to be for men and women and all genders, it is full of little worksheets and prompts and questionnaires and ideas and stories from my experience and things like the Five Basics of Self Care and Best Ways to make a Conscious Decision About Something really Big in Your Life and stuff like that. That is available on Amazon and wherever books are sold. And you know, I have a blog as well. It's Suzanne falter Suzannefalter.com that I've been keeping for ten years that is filled with ideas and hundreds of blog posts about these very matters. Awesome. Thank you so much. Usually I ask the guests or often for a closing piece of wisdom, but if it's okay with you, I like teals just B Yeah, I think maybe that's the thought because it's like just be so thank you. There's a little corollary to that. If I may interject, she wrote on one page B and you know and I love that because you do get the result from just being. Wow. Holy cow. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed this. I've taken so much out of this. I hope the readers and listeners excuse me do the same. Thanks again for joining us, Suzanne. And for those of you listing as always, I look forward to helping you impact more people and make more money in less time doing what you do best so you can better enjoy your family, your friends and your life. Thanks so much for listening.