I kind of work with people in a way that I help them understand what their autopilot is because we all have an autopilot and you're unaware of it. So that's just sort of what you see as normal, but other people might see as ridiculous, but we are not aware of it. So I hope people get really in touch with that. And people usually love that work. Welcome, everybody. I am so excited to have Caroline stag with us today, and we're going to talk about when you can't tell whether you're working or playing that that's when you're there. Welcome to the show. Caroline, thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks so much for having me. I'm looking forward to it. Awesome. Caroline helps leaders and those who aspire to lead to do so with balancing their lives and to spend time with their family and make time for themselves. This is so aligned with what we do. She shares skills that support leaders to help with inspiration, drive and compassion and create the needed space for themselves and their families to thrive. She has a degree in behavioral psychology from the University of London. She spent time working as a journalist in Australia and a 14 year career in corporate media, as well as doing Prono work for charities and nonprofit organizations. So so much of what she's done, as I learned from talking about her in the pre interview, is that who she is and her journey is really aligned with our whole conversation. What I like to do is just start out. Caroline, would you tell people a little bit about your story? Just going back to learning from your dad as an entrepreneur and how that's gotten you where you are today? Yeah. Thanks. I suppose my parents kind of came from sort of quite poor backgrounds, and when they got together, they obviously had made a decision, I think, to become someone. They sort of moved away from the family and they went out on their own. They chose to live in a different town, and they were both very kind of committed to creating a good lifestyle for themselves because of what they grew up with. And definitely when I was growing up, it worked with a big part of my dad's life, particularly my mum always worked as well. And so I just grew up with that around me, and I didn't think anything of it. But as time went on and we would move house occasionally from my dad's work, I could see that my mom gave up quite a lot of her friendships in order to when we moved house. And for me, when I was about seven, we moved. That was a bad move. And my dad always realized it was a bad move, but they never did anything about it. And I just think yesterday there were, like loads of times there was stress in the house. My dad would get really early. He'd be gone normally before I woke up. And then quite often in the evening, he would get up to the driveway and fall asleep in the car because he was so exhausted and I'd be sent out to go and get him to go and get him out of the car because he didn't go and cold. And. That went on. So there were those pressures. And my dad did try to get into golf and things like that to have other interests. But really, he would just sit on the sofa in our living room and he'd be sort of like drawing out engineering things. So it's just always working, basically. And then what happened was that my dad got ill and he was so focused on business and making the business work and everything and taking so much on himself that he didn't realize that he'd become ill. And so one day, when I came home from school, he'd been in bed because he had pains in his stomach or something. And when I got home, he wasn't in the bed. And I didn't know what had happened to him. I didn't know. But it turned out that he was diagnosed with leukemia and his spleen had grown to something four or five times as size it's supposed to be. And that was a major drama, really big event in my family. But as things happened, he was one of the lucky ones. And he got another 30 years after that that we could not have predicted. So he had another 30 years after that. And he stepped back from being like the managing director of his company. And he started playing more golf. And he really. Did. And then they went on better holidays and things like that. They really kind of got the relationship back. And it was great that he had that time because it could so easily have gone the other way. And so watching that I just took on all that stuff that you have to work really hard. And his mottos are things like everything's worth doing. It's worth doing properly. And if it's worth doing properly, you might as well do it yourself, all of that kind of stuff. So I said, you pick all that up when you're a child because you just have an open mind. But I didn't realize that was what I was doing. And so I went off to University. And. So I did my degree in psychology. And then I worked in media for a long, long time. And as time went on, I found that I was enjoying it less and less. It was more of a struggle. I had two children. It's the same for so many people. You feel stretched. And your life isn't quite how you imagined it. And there's lots of pressures and you're working and all of that stuff. It was quite funny when my dad turned around to me one day and said, Caroline, nobody ever said on their deathbed that they wish they spent more time in the office. I thought that was hilarious coming from him. Then what happened was that both my parents got ill. So my dad had been ill, but he'd been okay. And then my mom had a massive stroke, and that just changed everything. And. Then, yeah. So I just had a completely different perspective on life that I had to do. Me and my brother, who was equally involved, had to look after them a lot. And then because within sort of a couple of years of both being ill, they had both passed on. And so then I just realized that, okay, there's nothing I don't have to. This is a moment for me to take a step back and think, what is it that I want to do? Because. There'S no one watching me now. I'm not going to get any criticism or any. Oh, that's a bit odd or whatever. It's just like that is freedom. Then if that's what you have, after all the sorrow and sadness that is freedom. So what do I want to do? I had worked so hard, and I had to really kind of push myself. I remember just sitting there kind of what could it be? What could it be? Also still trying hard to work out, what would it be? But fortunately, I got in touch with my psychology routes again. And so then I started to see how together with my corporate career and with changing careers myself, I could see that there was work I could do here and that maybe what I could do in sharing the story of my family would be to help people become more aware of how that story is also their story potentially and how you do have options. There are options. And I've made a break and changed what I was doing. And so if I can do it, then anybody can do it. So that's how I sort of started doing the work that I do now. And what the work that I do now is almost like, well, I help leaders get that kind of life for themselves, not with them necessarily changing career, but just finding that space in life, because what I've learned from working with them is that you are more able to lead when you have that space in your life, when you have other interests in your life, when you take time off, when you do all those other things that does make you better at your job, as opposed to just only having that one outlet for all your energy. And I'm not spending time with the people that you love and the friends that you've made and now never see and all of that. And I've sort of put together some tools and things that can help people understand how they can make that happen, how they can. Well, really recently I've been working with some people in tech and what I've really got because those leaders get tech is a very pressured area, or it can be anyway. And so helping them develop communication strategies which really benefit everybody and also benefit them. So kind of training people up in that sense that have great communication strategies so that everything in the business works more smoothly. And there are sort of templates and protocols and people know their meetings are fantastic. They have one to one, they actually get to know each other. And all of that stuff makes for such a cohesive team. And that team is what you need behind you in order to have that kind of time that we're looking for, that will maybe allow you to have that day off, a week that will make the difference. So that's what I've been doing. There's so much there. I think very often people believe it needs to be dramatic. There needs to be some major change. As somebody who has been a coach and in the psychology field and speaking for years, I'm one of those people that doesn't have this dramatic story. And it's almost like, oh, no, you need this dramatic story and something has to have happened. And there were aliens involved or there was some sort of tragedy. And it's I think such a disservice to the people that have what they believe is a normal life. And most people, we usually believe our lives are normal. Doesn't everybody have the same thing I have. Didn't everybody's dad got sick at a certain age or whatever it might be. And I think the thing that people miss is so much of this shifting of life, work balance, work, life balance, harmony, whatever you want to call it does not require changing jobs. And that's one of the things I try to tell people is it's great to have an ideal to say, yes. I'd like to work a four day work week. I'd like to have a three day weekend. I like more vacation time. I'd like to make more money. But in the Meanwhile, what are you going to do? Do you have to do that? Delayed thinking. We say, okay, well, until that happens, I can't be happy. So I'm just going to put my nose down and work and forget about the people I love and then wake up one day. It's so common. It's been done so many times. It's a tired movie line that's been done so many times, the plot line. And yet we keep doing it. And so one of the things that I think is very reassuring when I invite anybody that's even listening now is today can be the day that you decide. Okay. I'm going to do one thing different. Like you mentioned, your parents started slightly just making more time, and he didn't give up his career. It doesn't have to be this dramatic thing. It doesn't have to be. I'm going to give up everything for you and then go on without me like this really dramatic thing. It can just be. Oh, okay. I'm going to take time to have a half hour and just be present dinner with my family. Something so simple can be the starting point. And most of us know habits take so long to build. So you say, okay, this month, I'm going to have dinner with my family as many times as I can. And I'm going to mess up a couple of times. I'm still not going to come. It's still not going to be perfect. And you mentioned so much of that perfectionistic thinking. Maybe share a little bit if you don't mind when soul work with people who are trying to make a shift, how does perfectionistic thinking? You mentioned kind of a little bit of yourself or being hard on yourself or expecting everything? As you said, your dad. I mean, it's an interesting connection your dad made from. If it's worth doing well, it's worth doing, it's worth doing well. And I'm the only one who can do it well. And that's, like the basic entrepreneurial almost downfall. If there's a movie of okay, I have to do everything myself, which, of course, means you can't scale. There's so many things you can't do. How does that perfectionistic thinking come out? And the people soul work with and how do you help them look at that and maybe come up with a better way of seeing things? I kind of work with people in a way that I help them understand what their autopilot is because we all have an autopilot and you're unaware of it. So that's just sort of what you see as normal that other people might see as ridiculous. But we are not aware of it. So I help people get really in touch with that. And people usually love that work because it also helps you understand how you tend to communicate how you behave with people. And that can be so important, especially in leadership. But actually, for anybody, it's just really good work to do. It doesn't necessarily take up too much time. But then after that work, I help people look at their values and their beliefs and where those came from and how they got those. Because as children, our minds are just wide open and we accept very much what we receive. And so me taking on I have to do all these things because that's how things get done properly. I don't need to carry that around my whole life. I can just put that down. Actually. But I think it is really important to get to grips with what is important to you. What are your values? And they can change, of course, over the years, as you get older, things happen and that can really change your value. So I think it's something that we can all check in with every few years or so because that's what's running the show. It's hidden from our awareness. But just these beliefs that we have these values that we've taken on. They are running the show. They are what motivates us. And then what if you decide to make a change. Then. You have to take it all with you or what if you just decided that you're going to take Fridays off? What if nothing, because you want to go for a run because you want to pick the kids up from school that day or you want a long weekend? Nothing fell apart because that happened. Then I sort of started looking at more into strategies about how you can build a team in your business that totally allows you to do that. And also that the people that work in your business can totally expect that they could do that because you're going to just be the only one having a great time. It's not fair, is it? So if that's what you truly believe, that there should be the possibility, not every week, perhaps, as you say, sometimes it doesn't work out. But if you start to plan for it, if you start to train up these younger people, if you start to get communication going, that increases productivity. If you start to show an interest in people, I think one of the most important things is just really showing an interest in people as people. So having a one to one with them and just letting them talk about life and just finding out what they're interested in becoming and what their beliefs and what do they want to do with their free time? And how can you help them do that? How can we make it work for you? All of that and a lot of that is about communication. It's about integrity, people holding each other to account, people doing what they said they were going to do. It's about training people up and giving them confidence. I think confidence is a big thing. If you want to have the afternoon off and you leave somebody at work feeling really uncomfortable, that's a horrible afternoon for them. But if they feel like, okay, well, I know that I could get in touch if it was really disastrous and they would be fine with that, then you feel like, OK, I did it before. I can do it again and all of that kind of stuff and just encouraging people to find their own, look at their own values and sort of see where they align with the business, because what's important to you is aligned with soul work. Then obviously you want that to work out. So there are so many things like that that I can think of. And I read something this morning and someone said, When I talk to managers, I get the feeling they're important. And when I talk to leaders, I get the feeling I'm important. And I thought that was a really nice thing to remember, because when you make people feel important, then they are invested in you rather than you getting for the hundredth time that they are important. There's so much there, I think a few of the things number one, the values that you can just pick it up or drop it. And you and I have been studying the psychology field. That's one of the most common things. It's not so much what you add, that what you let go of. Usually you have these ideas or these thoughts or some people call them tapes or whatever it is just playing and saying that this is what's so and a lot of times people say, well, that's woo stuff or that has nothing to do with business. And I encourage people to look at athletics, because sometimes that's where people can kind of see the crossover. You say, well, if an athlete goes into competition and they're not confident, how are they going to perform? They've got this range of where they can perform at, but they're going to perform to the bottom of the range if they're not confident. And what if they are confident, how are they going to perform? And as somebody who coaches and youth sports and just watches athletics, the coach, the manager, depending on the sport they might call a different role. But the job of that person is to get the best out of the people they have. And very often they don't even get to choose who they hire. So sometimes they're not the same person that's making the hiring decisions of the personnel. But they're saying, okay, you need to get the best out of these people and where they're at the communication, the mindset and the other thing you mentioned of sharing. If this truly is a great vision, then it should be for all of us. Right. So you hear people sometimes talk about my parents are from the Islands, my wife's from Peru. And as we joke about, whenever there's some sort of third world country unrest stereotypically, there's a leader that says, here's what we're going to do. And it's great for you guys. For me, not so much. I'm going to still have the big house and this and that. But for you guys, here's what's awesome. And it's so transparent to see that in leadership, like you said also that I get that you're important when you're a manager or you're this ego based person. I get that I'm important when you're truly leading. And this is one of those things for the person that said, okay, but wait, you're still talking woo woo. Employee turnover costs, employee retraining costs. Those are the biggest costs. I don't care how much you love your employees or not, even if you're the most selfish person in the world, you understand there's a reason why at some point there were Ping pong tables and half of Silicon Valley businesses they were trying to see. What is it that we're missing that people are leaving and it doesn't mean you're going to fix it with a Ping pong table, but just at least understanding or connecting to say, okay, I'm trying to connect with you. I'm trying to understand what it is that's important to you whether it's time off. And we were talking just before this, you mentioned people just gain more into deeper conversations and just finding out what is important. And this is the part. I think that's shifting in the world is these ideas of these massively scaled businesses. Now technology is more flattening, the opportunities and the hierarchies. Look, I don't want to deal with somebody who doesn't know who I am. I don't want to do business with somebody who doesn't know even a little bit about my story and where I'm from and that I play beach volleyball on Fridays. That's important to me. And so this idea of one person, even authors, speakers, they're going to have 5 million followers, that all love only them. It's so shifted. And so I think in the business is the same thing. People want to feel valued, appreciated. And they definitely want to know to your point that if the boss can get such and such extra income, time off trips, I want to get something like that. I don't expect most people don't expect. I don't expect to get the same size of the boss. The boss is a higher level than I am. I'm not an idiot. I get that. But don't tell me. Only the boss gets it and I get nothing. And I'm just going to say, oh, good boss. Got it. Exactly. Taking this into this conversation of midlife career crisis, I felt like I had one of these when I was about 28. Still live. So I guess it wasn't my midlife, hopefully my quarter life or my 10th life or something. I want to live a long time, but it was very this situation of okay. I'm not doing what I love. Not that I have to do that, but in that case, it was very important. I was like, just plain simply, I see I'm stuck. How do you look at that with people? How hard is it for people, even to admit that and what comes up for people, especially when mentioning the words midlife, which is not when you're 15 or 18, where you feel like the whole world is your oyster. How does that come up for people? And what are some of the best ways that they can get started even looking at, forget even fixing it yet, but even just acknowledging, like, okay, hey, I don't have to be mad that not everything worked out. But I can perhaps do something about this. I think for a lot of people, it's like an interest. Perhaps. Sometimes I ask people, what did you love to do when you were a child? Because I think very often some of those things are rooted in what we knew we loved. But because as we grow up, we fell out of love or we just got distracted with all the other things. And so, yeah, quite often I ask people, what did you love to do as a child? Because I know for me it was music. And I was doing music every lunchtime, every after school, every opportunity. I was music every day, special pass to get into dinner so that I could have all of that. And then, of course, because of the instruments I was playing with brass instruments is not cool and trendy. So. When I went to go to Six Form, which is I don't know what you call it, but when I was 16 left school and I went to another College, I just dropped that because it was just very uncool. And there were many more other things to do. And for me then I didn't pick that up really again until my children were at school and through the music that they were doing at school, I got hooked up in that and they did some adult sessions. I got hooked up in that. And that has given me ended up being, I suppose, the last bigger that I was in a film, the remake of Peter Pan. I played in Rio Carnival. I've been across Europe in doing all sorts of things like that. And of course, Lockdown has killed that. But I'm going to have to brush off the drums and get my chops back as they're called for me. I had that. So even when I didn't have, like, my job wasn't perfect and I wasn't enjoying it, I had that outlet, much to the amusement of my parents. But many other people, really. But yes, that has been extraordinary for me. And something I could never have predicted, going from playing in the little band at school and having ditched it. So I sort of go back to that because I think that if you liked reading or maybe you want to try writing, I don't know, just like lots of people like people that I've worked with grown adults who enjoy cycling to the point where they go to extraordinary places to climb up to cycle up extraordinary mountains. And that is joyful for them. They're still able to do their job. They just have to book two weeks off and that will kids sustain them. My husband is sailing, which he got from being a child. He was sent to Sea Scouts or something because his parents wanted him to go and find something to do. Didn't go back to it for decades. And now he sails across to France and all sorts of places when there's no Lockdown, of course. And he has a new group of friends who all love to do that as well, is a whole other thing for him. And that has just given him, like, a new outlook on life, a new life, really. I think there's something interesting in what we enjoyed as children. But also, as I said before, that kind of value stuff is deeply ingrained, because that's so deeply ingrained and is so to do with your motivation. I think sometimes it's easier to start off with doing something that seems naturally getting more interested in. Maybe it's writing or singing or exercise exercise groups. I mean, it's a great way to me. I mean, men have football, and women have football, but there's a lot of again, it's something that you've probably tried before, but now you'd really like to try again and get good at it. And so for some people, that's enough because not everybody needs to have this amazing career. Some people can get value from their work and a lot of value from the stuff that they also do by having a family, having friends, sport. And. That'S great, isn't it, that you have, like, two things. And that's what I felt about music is that I have a great job that I love doing now. And I get to meet an amazing people. I get to support amazing people that is so important to me. And I have all this music stuff going on. So whenever I want it, it's there. So I think that we can push too hard and just actually does it have to all be work related because I don't think it does. Actually. I mean, it's great that it can be, but also it's nice to have something that's completely unrelated to soul work, so you can just switch off from work and go and do that other thing. So I think there are lots of things to play with. But also I do work with people. As I said before, I think about your autopilot, understanding how you tend to do everything. And when you better understand yourself, you can sometimes come to a better understanding of what you enjoy doing for work and jobs that you've enjoyed and jobs that you haven't enjoyed and understand the bit about it. That was that bit. Okay. And also it can be about where you get money from. We all have that that's a part of life, isn't it? So understanding how maybe you can have two jobs, maybe you could have two jobs, and they were just about bringing the same income as you had in your last job. Only they'd be something completely different. So there are other ways to make money. We know this, but it's just about following something that you would like to spend time doing. So that's how I kind of dig into it. And then you can go and try it out. You can have it all in your head. But actually, it's the being of it that is ultimately what you need to get to. So how about going to try out, go and shadow someone at work in a role maybe that you've been curious about. But. Take a few days off and just shadow them. Even if it's in the same business, it could be a completely different experience or just shadow someone in a different company or that kind of thing. There's all these things that you can use to dig into it. But I think sometimes people just go to a different company, and that isn't the answer. So sometimes it can be that you need to just allow yourself to dream about what that could be and what really pulls you. Because if you're going to go to all that effort, it's nice to have something that you really are excited about. So I think you don't need to know anything for most people. If you're brave enough to sort of make that cut in a sense and just leap, you're probably going to have more fun. Yeah. I think there's so many things that you just mentioned there. So first of all, within the same company, you can have. Usually there's an accounting Department, a marketing Department, a website and design Department. So I remember when I worked for a large company, really high quality company, and I was playing around with roles, but I was one of those people. I'm a learner. So I'm naturally going to be restless every couple of years. I'm going to want a new thing because I'm going to get bored. So it wasn't even so much the thing. It's like I wanted to learn something new. And once it got to become routine, I wasn't interested. I wanted to learn something new. And I remember when some of my friends would jump around companies that said, look, the last thing I want to do is jump to another company in the same job and restart. Now again, if I love the work and I thought it was just, well, it's a bad company. That's a different conversation. But I like the people I work with. I was treated well. It was paid well, and definitely, in my case, it's beach volleyball. I put it aside for years. I picked it back up for the first six years. That when my wife and I she had a child or a child. For the first six years, I had this idea of, okay, well, I'm going to be a dad, and I'm not going to play volleyball. I'm going to put all my time into being a dad. And my gosh think of high school relationships and dating. The worst thing you can do is say, I'm going to put all my time and energy into this one person. I'm going to ignore all my friends, everything else that's made me happy. And I'm going to bet everything on one relationship or one role, and it didn't make me happier. And when I got back to playing it, I realized what a big deal that is for me. And sometimes I'll work a four day week. Sometimes I work a six day week, depending on what's going on. Usually it's a four day week, but I get my volleyball in. And there's just certain things that if it's your thing and I played trombone. I was horrible. Actually, I didn't practice much, but I still love the instrument, but I play music and just different things that not everything has to be great. And there's something I heard Wayne Dyer say, and I listened to it again recently on his tapes. We said, don't try to be great at everything. Pick one or two things that you're going to say. Yeah, I'm going to really look to be great at everything else. I'm just going to kind of do them. I'm going to enjoy them. And so I'm not a very great singer. But, man, when you put on those headphones and I'm listening to Deaf Leopard, I sound just like Joe Elliott. Now. My wife doesn't agree. My family doesn't agree, so I sometimes have to wait till they leave the premises. But I love that. And when I play drums and I try to keep it with some of the best drummers in the world, I will listen, and I just turn up the music loud enough and I'm messing up. But gosh and I'm having fun. So I don't have to try to be. I mean, I wanted to be, like, What, Stuart Copeland, Neil Perry, Travis Barker. These people have spent their whole life doing this. And for whatever reason, I'm not wired to want to do all the practice. I just want to sound like them. Well, shocker. Everybody wants to sound like them, but I can still have the fun and be a little less serious. A little more childlike about, like, yeah, I enjoyed this for five minutes. I'm off to do something else. And I think there's so much to what you said of that. Of a lot of times we just need a little variety. You watch so many things about people. We need hope we need shifts. But usually it's anchored in either connecting with some person or people or some activity that we love. And so again, like you said, whether it's inside work, outside of work, we still need to pay the bills. And that's probably the biggest thing I think that people say, Well, I'm just going to all of a sudden become irresponsible. Slow down again if you want to do this, let's say I'm 49. Do you plan on being alive in ten years, Wade? Yes. Okay. We'll take 1 hour a week and do your new happy this year. And next week, 2 hours or next month, 2 hours or next quarter, 2 hours or next year just gradual things. Because if you take that approach, it almost becomes inevitable. If you're an entrepreneur and you say, I'm going to work, I'm currently working 40 hours in a week. I'm eventually going to get to 28 hours this month. I'm going to work for four weeks with 39 hours. And the next week I'm into 38 hours, and it might not go perfect. You might reach 35. But as somebody who's done this, my sweet spot is about 34 hours. I still like I do about four by eight and a half. And at times I've done it in summer when the kids are off and one and I'll do less. But I like that almost like a person like an athlete or some people work out longer periods of time. Some people work out shorter. You find I think your rhythm and it's so much closer than some people think. And so even the title of midlife career. Christ. Oh, my gosh, no, you're in a rut. You're doing something that's not working. And I think sometimes people want the more dramatic answer. It sounds like a better story. And yet sometimes it's like, okay, I want to be healthier. Okay. You know that garbage food you're eating. Oh, I have to give it all up. No, just don't eat it during the week. Eat it on the weekends. I can do that. And so I think a lot of the times again, it might cut into your in my profits, because sometimes people like, Well, I need to pay somebody and then it'll become dramatic. And then I'll actually take one. You actually don't need to pay me to change. But if you want to pay me, sure, that works. You and I talked a little bit about in the pre interview about some of the other things that goes back to values and relationships and perhaps habits or the autopilot. What will my friends? What will my family? What will they think about me? How do you help people with that conversation? Because that might be the core to all of this. Is will the tribe kick me out? Will I be accepted? Will I be loved as much as especially guys? I don't care about that stuff. Of course we do. That's why we all wear a team shirt from a successful football team, even though we're not on it. We're like, yes, my team won. Are you on the staff? No. Did you contribute any money? No. But my team won. So therefore, in some way, I'm lovable I'm likable. What do you do to help people with that? Or even start that conversation about the fears of the retention. And how did that play out for you? And how maybe does that help others? I think it played out quite uncomfortably for me. Actually. Because I care too much about what people think. And I think that is the case. Are you about you being happy or are you about making it happy for other people so they can feel comfortable being around you? I would say I still struggle with that a bit. It occurs to me. People say, what is it you do again? And I. Oh, come on. Really? We're still there. I suppose it's just that I'm a lot happier. I'm doing something I love doing. I'm impacting the world in a good way. I love the clients that I have. It's extraordinary for me to be able to help them produce the results. They do all the work. So. Ultimately, I just get over that. That's one way. I think the thing is we care too much about what other people think. And if you've come to the point where you don't want to do the work that you're doing or your life is jaded and not very nice, then go and try something new. I think a lot of it is in your head. I'd say because I think I've thought all those things like, I thought my parents would judge me. Sometimes they really were. What is it? Why are you doing that? But at the end of the day, it's normally just a story that you're telling yourself because there is fear there for you about making that leap. And you can make that fear mean anything. You could just make that feeling nothing. And just like, why do I need to be afraid of trying out something new? Don't need to be afraid about that. I think you can sell it to yourself a bit in a way. But really, the only way is just not care. You're not hurting anybody. You're having a good time. And presumably your family are probably getting a better time out of it as well. That's the aim quite often to be able to do more of the things that you love have more time to do those things. And so, yeah, who are you harming. I sometimes think there's that thing where you were saying about you throw all your eggs in one basket. It's like I got to get rid of the job. I think that puts a lot of pressure on people that you love to kind of be on board with what you want as well or to take that on, too. So I think that sometimes it's just nicer to those around you or for your lifestyle. In fact, to ease your way in, to try things out and sort of play with them and just get them on board. It's like, okay, well, makes them happy. And something to what you said. There's a couple of things. Number one, if you are willing to do the work of slowly transition to something a lot of the times, the people who care about you, what you're hearing is their fears. I'm afraid you're not going to be able to pay your bills. I'm afraid you're not going to be able to pay your bills. And then I'm going to have to pay your bills, like, all these different things that might be coming up. Number one, number two, there's something I've heard it in different places and something my mom would just repeat to me is, look, one of the most unselfish things you can do is to not be burdened upon others. And that includes your happiness, your wellbeing and whatnot? And then third, who says they have to accept your dreams? Because now it becomes a controller shadow way. You must love me. Okay. I love you. You must love that. I want to become a blah, blah, blah. Well, no, I don't. I don't believe in that. I don't like that. I don't know. I'm a conservative. You want to be a Liberal? I'm a Liberty. You want to be conservative. Whatever it is, I can still love you and say, wow, I really don't like that decision. I really don't like that. You're doing that. I think sometimes other dynamics play out. Well, they didn't like me because this that. And as you said, ultimately, it's about what we think of ourselves to a certain level. And if you believe there's a God I happen to, I'm not selling it. But then it's between whatever you believe with you and God or whatever that being or presence is. But ultimately, some of the biggest dramas, as you said, is the story. It's not even happening. They're already onto something my Mommy's tell me. Wait, look, just so you know, not everybody's sitting around contemplating you. I know it's going to blow your mind. And I'm sorry to disappoint you, but guess what? Most of them didn't even realize what happened. And like you said, all this pressure on other people to be all these things for us, that was probably one of the biggest things I thought. Okay, my wife and it's not even my wife, but the woman I'm married to and our child, that was going to be the happiness in your eyes here. I thought I was doing something Noble again, based on story, what were taught at times. And yet the amount of pressure that put for that to be to entertain me all the different needs I have as a guy to be able to tell inappropriate jokes with guys. Well, I don't want to do it with my wife. Just different things like that to be able to meet those needs without it being too crazy. And then one of the things that you and I mentioned and I just think is so huge is the best time to plant a tree is 200 years ago and the next best time is today. How have you incorporated that? And how does that help the people soul work with possibly get over all of the regret I could have this. I should have this and get out of that rut where we just stay there and we use that beating ourselves up to stay there and then turn that into actually action and change and momentum in a new direction. I think it can be again, it can be a simple thing or it can be a big thing. So it's the same conundrum. Really. You haven't had a chance to do X up until now, but tomorrow is another day and you could decide to do it. Then. I just think that if you are healthy enough to do whatever pulls you, then get on and do it. Because. For an example, I used to run. I used to run about a marathon a week, not all over a week, and that was running was my thing. I was known for it. People would see me running, and I would sort of like, do these enormous runs. And I couldn't imagine what it would be like if I couldn't run. It was so important to me. It just made me feel so amazing. I used to run out to the Olympic Village, and I run back, and then I damaged my foot and I couldn't run anymore. And actually, I'm fine with that. So. I just found other things to do. I do a lot of cycling. I do a lot of hip workouts for that. I'm still very healthy and fit, but I'm also doing other things. And so it was almost like I was on an auto Parliament with that. I am a runner, but I don't know how I got for that, because I was quite unfair. It was just like I'm going to not like, is it called couch to five K or something? Whatever people do, it's sort of like that. It started off, and then it just became this overwhelming thing, and I would just run for miles. And actually, what I noticed was I have all this time all this time on my hands. I don't have to run every other day. So, yeah, I think there's so much there just start. If you don't like it, just stop. But the more you do it, the more you get into it, then you may well find that you enjoy it. So many people thinking at the moment about getting fitter because they've been sitting around so much. It's like if you don't find a way that works for you, if that's what you want to do, if there's something that you want to do or just run, because it's great to be outside. Again. It doesn't have to be dramatic. And you don't have to do like I did and go running so much that you break your foot and then you can't go anymore. You can just do it as that you don't have to be brilliant at it. You just have to enjoy it. And that's all there is. Yeah. I think that's the thing, too. Both of us are in the coaching field, and there are people that will sometimes some people right now are going to listen to this, and that'll be what shifted them. And some will say, no, I have to actually hire a coach. And then when I can hire a coach, the story they're going to tell themselves that then when I've actually paid enough to the coach. Well, again, gladly take your money. But at the end of the day, I would prefer if it's something simple, just go do it and send somebody else my business to me that actually needs the help or whatnot. So again, our story of what it needs to look like and sometimes of course, people do need coaches. That's why you and I do soul work, but it doesn't always have to be so complex. Thank you so much. Where can people find out more about soul work and get in touch with you and connect with what you're up to? So I'm on all the normal channels. So I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram. My email address is Caroline at carolinestag. Co. Uk. It's two GS in Stagger because I've had to say my entire life stag with two GS, but I just kept it really simple. So I just got a Caroline Stag. So on Facebook Instagram, you name it wherever. I just kept it the same name. So if you go on to most social media platforms and you put my name in, then that will be me. So that's why my website is carolinestag. Co. Uk awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. I know one of the things that I really love is, and I think we did this was to have a conversation where people can kind of hear some of the parts of what's going on in their own head because there's a lot of things you seem like. Yeah, I've thought that I've done that. And again, encourage people. While both of us have fancy degrees and different things, it doesn't have to necessarily be fancy. Sometimes it can be taken a step forward. So thank you again. So much for coming out, Caroline, and everybody listening, as always, look forward to helping you create the life and the lifestyle you most enjoy, so you can better have fun with your family, your friends, and your journey. Thanks for listening.