186. Create the Freedom to Stay Young and Enjoy Play at Work with Steve Sommerfeld

I almost find reaching the goal is the worst part because once I've got to the goal, I'm bored. That's my biggest problem. Once I've reached what I thought I was going to get to and I get there, then I'm like, eh, alright, now, what's next? You know, like, it is a bit silly, but it is a feeling that comes along with it. I think a lot of people probably get that as well.

All right, welcome, everybody. So the PreCheck has already been interesting.

Welcome.

I'm so happy to have you here with me today. We're talking with Steve Summerfeld about how you can stay young, keep playing and take guiltfree time off. Thanks so much for joining us today, Steve.

Thank you very much for having me, Wade. It's awesome to be on. Like you just said, we've done the pre checks. That was awesome. We did a chat was a couple of weeks ago as well, and that was also good enough that we should have recorded that one. We should have recorded the pre chat. There's nothing up the nose. I mean, we're looking good for this video. So if you're listening to this as audio only, you're really missing out. You should tune into the video.

Absolutely. So, yes, this should be fun. So Steve is an expert in one of the most dangerous sports in the world freestyle motocross. As an international rider, competing and performing at some of the world's biggest events, he's covered about all the aspects of the FMX world, from a world championship judge, coach, author, TV host and commentator, to creating and building some of the biggest events for brands like Red Bull and managing the biggest athletes in the sport. That was a pretty good reading. I'm going to give myself credit for that. To read that well, after our preaching, that was pretty damn good.

Yeah, you got through that one.

I got through that well.

I'm getting practice makes perfect, right?

Practice makes perfect. So thank you so much for joining us. Just share a little bit about Steve. We did talk so much, so important, so we forgot a lot of it. But tell me a little bit about your journey as far as as an entrepreneur, motocross rider and just a person who seems to live so much of your life from passion. I know you're going through rehab right now, physical rehab for some injuries and stuff, but share a little bit about your journey and what kind of got you started on making sure that you focused on enjoying life, being young, being passionate, that sort of stuff.

I think it all stems from growing up on a farm, growing up in Australia on a dairy farm. I've seen my mum, my dad, grandparents and the other family as well who worked on the farm. I saw them work themselves into the ground for a long time and for almost nothing. And my old man, he always told me, get an education. That was one of the main things I took from the years and years of being on the farm, going to school, get an education, because farming doesn't pay the bills. Now, whether he meant that as in purely for the financial reason of this is worth nothing. You're going to do the same as us. I don't know. I don't know if I took it the right way. I think he was not so impressed because I just wanted to ride motorbikes and jump them, and he hated that part. But that's actually what I've ended up doing for my entire working career, is riding a dirt bike, which is not what he wanted, but I definitely got away from the farm. So I always think about that, that if I was not riding a dirt bike, I probably would have just had a normal job and I probably wouldn't be very happy doing what I was doing, whatever that may have been.

Or as he said, the other option was you come back to the farm and you milk cows for the rest of your life. And that was not happening. So I think about that constantly. That's like the main motivation of doing what I do is you don't need to burn yourself out doing something you don't want to do. And to be honest, I think dad did want to do it. He did love that farm life, but he was also a very good engineer and I know he wanted to go back to that, but, yeah, he definitely got stuck in that. Farming. What farming is, you can't escape it. Cows need to be milked morning and night, every single day. There's no holidays. You just have to do it.

Yeah, it's not a very good three day weekend.

Exactly. There is no three day weekend business model in that. I think as a kid, I don't remember us ever having a holiday more than three days. And that would have been only every couple of years, maybe we might have got three days away that we found somebody to come milk the cows enough that we did get away. So I kind of think of it, I did a lot of that work when I was younger, and now I'm running from that as fast and as far away from it as I can get.

It's so interesting. My dad is a successful entrepreneur and there's different pieces of advice he gave me, like, make sure if you're going to be a professional, find be a professional. You're going to be a doctor or lawyer or whatever, do that. But if you're not, if you're going to start a business, in his case, he's in the insurance agency industry, so he'd say, Shark Tank insurance agency industry. Now, what I took from that was, be an entrepreneur, make sure you have a residual income model, which I have a small software company, and do what the heck you like with life but it's funny to me, like, you say your father had a specific vision. Like, sometimes my dad will be like, well, you need to have an insurance agent, like, no, the lesson I took is not the exact lesson. You thought you were imparting, but I was paying very close attention and I listened. I just took out maybe slightly different pieces of the lesson than maybe he thought he was communicating, if that makes sense.

Absolutely. No, I completely agree. You took out the parts that probably made more sense for you. There was good advice in there, but you have to make it work for yourself.

So Shark Tank little for those people who don't know your background, just in writing. Because one of the things I talk with people a lot and they'll ask me about, well, should I do my passion for a living or not? And I think there's varied answers to that. I love beach volleyball. That is my passion. It's still my passion. I chose not to do it for a living, and I've watched some of my friends do phenomenally by choosing it as they're living. I've watched some of them be miserable by choosing it, they're living. Some of it is skill level. Some of it is, could they win prize money? What was your experience and what led you to decide? Yes, I'm willing to pursue something that, again, statistically speaking, is not the odds aren't in your favor.

The odds are definitely not in my favor in this sport. I've seen much better riders come and go, much better than I am. But injury is the biggest issue that we'll have in our sport. But the reason for doing it as a passion, it was that point where I went to university. I left the farm straight out of high school, went down to Brisbane, went to university. I mean, I did know what I wanted to do, but I knew I couldn't really get there to be a physiotherapist, you're kind of competing against doctors to get those specific subjects at university. So I kind of sidestepped that. I knew I couldn't do it the traditional way. I went to a private college. I did an advanced diploma in remedial therapies and Sports massage. Funny thing was, I realized after that two years, I can't stand for 8 hours a day doing that type of it was like manual labor. I might as well go back to the farm at that point. And then again, I kind of didn't know where I would go. And dad said the same thing, well, you get a job in what you've just learned, you go back to university or you come home and milk cows.

And so I went through the university. Just what else is there? I thought, when I'm 40 years old and I've broken every bone in my body and I just want to sit in air conditioning, who does that? I thought about business. People do that. So I just did a business degree off of that Whim, and from that, then I took on management, and then I went into marketing, and all of those things definitely played a part, but the timeline of university blew out from a few years to six and a half years, I think. And by the time I finished it, I thought, I've just lived like a unibum for six and a half years. I still don't really like what I've studied. And I thought to myself, well, I was relatively good enough in the sport that I was doing could I already done a few competitions, and I'd entered a couple of pro competitions in my last semester of university. I did my first ever. I went on my first trip overseas was to China and did a ten day show in Xuzhou. And I thought, just give this a shot. I'll give myself one year.

You know, I'm pretty I'm pretty flexible when I give myself goals. But I was like, yeah, I'll just I'll try it for one year. If I live like a uni bum doing things I didn't want to do, let's live like a bum and do something I want to do. And within that year, I picked up a fair few shows, did a lot more competitions, picked up some sponsors. Not huge paying sponsors, but enough that actually the money didn't mean anything. The money was that little that it barely paid a phone bill. But it was a psychological acceptance that somebody from a company as big as, let's say, Fox Racing, which is the biggest gear brand in our sport, they're sponsoring me with everything. I never had to pay for anything again. And it was that psychological moment thinking, oh, well, maybe there is a chance from that. And I remember every single sponsor that's helped me along, because at every point, it was not so much about the money, but it was all mental. And that's why I decided to give it a shot. And it worked after one year. It worked after two years, and it continued snowballing.

And at every point, I would have been quite happy to say, I've had an awesome time, but this is going nowhere. I'll go back to the real world, but I never got to that point. I always found enough in terms of keeping it as a job, keeping the passion going, and it continued on.

That's so great. There's so many things that I love, just that you started. And our sports are preferred sports. Motocross meal, beach ball bodies. They're kind of similar. The sponsorship money is usually not huge in the sense of, oh, I can buy a mansion, but it's critical for those that are traveling, and yes, the pride that somebody will that sees that you're good enough, that they'll invest in you. And I explain to people about my entrepreneurial journey. I don't feel like I've been that great of a strategic planner. I've tried a strategic plan. I'm apparently not very good at it. So I would think A is going to work and then C would work out or G would come out of nowhere. Unfortunately, I was humble enough to be like, well, I didn't do something, so I would do that. And yet I do think entrepreneurship, especially if it's that I think there's a fun brand of it. I think there's a very drudgerylike brand of it. That's probably horrible grammar there, but just the version where one is, oh, there's a model and I have to follow Grant. I don't like following models. Everybody is unique.

But some people, I see them and they're a more creative type and they're following a model that somebody else created that's successful. And it's like, well, no, no, but that's what you wanted to create. That's not you. And I have friends that follow models and Wade, you brother. I'm happy. I just want to follow a model. I don't want to think in this area. I want to be created outside of work, which is great, but I tell people, kind of like you, I just feel every year I'm able to keep doing it, that I'm blessed and I have enough of a fear. Like most entrepreneurs, I do not want to work for someone else. And yet, if I had to, it's okay, it'd be alright. But I'd still look for how could I make that as fun as possible? How can I make that as cool as possible? And you seem to have done that with the energy you have, your approach. How do you keep the fun involved? Because a lot of people struggle with that. And there's almost this assumption, like you said, it sounds like you rejected the assumption that it has to be drudgery and at some point you said, no, I'm going to figure this out.

How did you do that? What was that like for you to make that decision?

Well, I think now we're talking more about work. And work in the passion of the sport is very different. As the athlete, that's very simple. All I had to do was train every day or as much as I wanted to, and I only trained doing what I wanted to do. That's why I love the sport that I did. I'm not a racer. I could not do motocross racing. So for those who are listening, freestyle motocross is more the stunt work. We do the backflips, we let go of the bike and it's like gymnastics on a motorcycle, evil caneval kind of things. There's no way I could be a racer. I don't have the determination, I don't have the motivation to be that fit, and I probably just don't have the skills to be a racer. But being a freestyle motocross rider, it's more about being creative. And I was kind of known as the fat guy getting around. Well, not fat, but I certainly wasn't fit. I hate the gym, but doing what I do is 100% mental, maybe 99% and 1% physical, because you just have to be confident in what you're doing. And that's where, on the athletes side of things, I was very confident in what I could do, and I stayed in my lane, and I did what I knew I could do.

And you do some dumb things, because that's also the sport. The sport is doing dumb things, but I would try and do the dumb things as smart as possible. But then on the business side of things, this came from, actually, my best friend Ryan. And after a couple of years of leaving university, I was writing, and I was doing enough shows that I was keeping myself busy. And we'd go and kick the footy every Tuesday and every Thursday, we just kick the footy around a bit, and it's like, Why don't you use that business degree? I'm like, Well, I don't want to. I just want to ride my bike. That's all I want to do. If I want to make money and do whatever, I can do that later. I'm young once. And he said, all right, well, why don't you think about he was brainstorming for me. I wasn't thinking of any of this. And he kind of came up with, well, you did management. Why don't you just manage a couple of riders, see how it goes? And we ended up doing a tour of Indonesia, and funnily enough, I ended up the guy running it was one of my heroes.

When I was a kid, he was looking for three freestyle riders, and I then took over the managing of finding the other two, and I took Clinton over there. Clinton, Lauren, Joshien. And they were far better writers than I was, like most. But at the end of this tour, we were in the pool in Jakarta, the last show coming up, and I just said to him, what shows do you guys have coming up? Or, what sponsors have you got? And it was pretty much they did have some sponsors. They did have some shows. But I thought, for how good you are, like, you should be on another level right now, not doing shows here in Indonesia for peanuts like us. And so with that, I created my business invert management. And within six months or about a year, those two guys were in the biggest events. And after a year or two, I worked with them, and they had a Red Bull helmet for Josh and a rock star helmet for Clinton. And having those energy drink helmets, that's kind of like, you know, that's your peak spot. Not the peak sponsorship, but in terms of publicity for the fans, that's when you get that helmet, that's kind of the top.

And very quickly, I realized, okay, I am the athlete as well. Not a great one, but I am. But I can help with those managing type roles, and it worked out very well. And both became Red Bull X fight as World Tour champions. Which was fantastic. I'm so glad that I got to be part of that. And the best part was, it was the best and the worst part. They both outgrew me. I was just a one man band. I managed to convince my wife to quit her job to come work with me. So it was a two man band, but we just couldn't do what they needed. I didn't have those resources, like a celebrity agent in America or something like that. So it was the best thing and it was the worst thing. And to be honest, they were my good friends and I'm glad that they went off and did so much better. But doing that entrepreneurial, starting out, it was so funny. I never expected it. I never could have planned what was going to come of just looking after these two guys at the same time. I was riding with another writer in Australia who he was one of the best.

He was nearing retirement and I was there probably two or three days a week, and he said, I want to build a bike park. But he didn't know how to sort of get that happening, so he was like, Well, I'm the brawn, you can be the brains. Let's see if you can use that uni degree if you think you're so smart. And so the two of us, we came up with a really good idea to build a motocross park and that snowballed into working with the Queensland government. And I think it was eleven councils in the southeast Queensland region, so Brisbane, Gold Coast and all the other smaller councils. And the government put in two $3 million and gave us 1800 acres of land to go build motorbike jumps and tracks and things like that. So, like I said, everything snowballed so fast and exactly what you said before. I'm not a strategic planner either. I thought I was starting with A and I ended up with Cdegh and Z, and I just go with it. At the start, I would always say no to everything, and my wife definitely points that out to me very often, that I would say no, and probably with her advice and probably kicking me off the backside a lot when we were younger, when we first got together.

Now I'm the absolute opposite and I'll say yes to everything and try and work it out. And if it works, fantastic. If it doesn't work, whatever. What have I lost? Maybe we've tried something, didn't work. Maybe you've learned a lesson instead. So that's kind of where the entrepreneurship came in. That just try it, give it a shot. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

Yeah, there's so much in that. First of all, I think it speaks volumes that you're able to help other riders to be able to in some way. And I guess it depends who you are. If you're really insecure person, it would be that you have to put your ego aside if you're just happy to be there. And that doesn't mean you devalue yourself. I'm just happy to be part of this, which is something great. We'll do this and if you're I think you're as an athlete, if you're in tune enough with what's really going on. Look, I have two friends that have become one's an Olympic world champion, and the other one played a really high level in college and I was friends with them and it's like, well, dude and in our case, some of it was some of it was jeans, but they worked harder and everything he said, good for you, that's awesome. The two things I think there and I'm going to ask if it's cool to ask you to go one of the time each. And first of all, you seem to have a very strong sense of confidence and faith that things are going to work out.

And I think of this sense of and that's as you mentioned, the 99%, as far as what you do, specifically tricks. And I think what you're saying is a lot of people can execute the trick they could do, like if they were doing it over a pool or over that, they could maybe do more than you. Absolutely. But then there's landing it and there's those parts. So first of all, the confidence, where would you say that's come from for you? And then if at all, do you cultivate it? Can other people cultivate it? Because the confidence, from athletics to entrepreneurship, you seem to have this generic sense that it's going to work out or at least not be so bad, that it's cataclysmic. And that is such and it's more than confidence. It's like a trust it's like not surrender, but it's like a trust factor about the universe, about life, about the whatever. How has that been a huge impact for you? And then how can people perhaps cultivate that?

That's a very good question. I wish I had a really good answer for it. That's actually an incredibly tough question to answer and I don't think I could give a perfect answer. And I think my personal journey is my journey. I don't think this would work for everybody. I think everybody will. Like you said, it could come down to genes, it could come down to how you grew up, come down to who your friends are. And like I said, I've got a fantastic wife who kicked my backside if ever I was negative. And she's probably one of the main aspects if I really was to think about it. But I think there's a few things. So my confidence in what I do, riding a dirt bike comes down to I don't want to crash. So as much as I say I don't want to crash and then I don't want to break bones. I have broken far too many bones, so I'm clearly not good at that either. I'm up to, I think, like 24 broken bones at this point, so clearly that hasn't worked. But the intention is not to crash. Like I said at the start, I will stay in my lane, I will do what I know I'm good at and I will do that as well as I possibly can.

And with that comes confidence. Straight away. That's your confidence builder. Probably. Like most people, I'm not overly confident. I'm normally a very shy person, so I've completely changed how that works through being the athlete with a TV host or at the event and somebody comes up with a microphone and asks you a question, you've got to answer with something. And so over the last 1520 years, that has developed to the point that I'm now confident to talk to you and I can answer questions where I don't really know the answer and say, I don't know the answer. Probably 15 years ago, I probably couldn't have done that. So it's just time. It's time. It's working on what you know. I stick to what I know and if I don't know it yeah, like you said, the confident part is it doesn't really matter. Life will work its way out one way or another and things can't be that bad as long as you're breathing, things can't be that bad that you can't fix it. So I always come back to that. Yeah, it can't be that scary to do something, just do it. Probably one other thing is I do think a lot.

I think that it's probably my biggest strength and it's probably my biggest weakness. I think far too much, I go into things too deeply that sometimes I'm crippled. I'm almost crippled with fear that if I start this, I'm either going to have to go through with it because I've thought about this so much and I've either invested so much time or generally I don't invest money, I generally invest a lot of time into something because I want to know this is going to work. So, yeah, that brings a lot of confidence. So if we were starting when I started managing writers, I knew it was going to work one way or another because I had already thought about it a lot. When we thought about building a motorbike park, it took five years. We went through two election cycles before the government at the time in power gave us the money. It takes time, but I thought about it that much that it couldn't fail, or if it did fail, I gave it a damn good shot. So, yeah, definitely thinking about things a lot and not worrying about if it actually does fail, you'll learn a lesson.

Yeah, I think there's so much to that, the staying in your lane thing, and I think that's a selfknowledge thing to some people. I said, oh, no, that's limiting. No, to me, if you know who you are within a certain area, you can be very confident, just to be really clear for the lawyers. And realistic, I'm not advocating that you do jumps and flips like Steve just, hey, listen to Weights podcasts, and now I'm doing backflips. No, no, not saying that. But I think there's something to love your answer in the sense that you acknowledge the other forces, your wife, perhaps, pushing you at times and being open and humble enough. And I find there's an approach to life that my parents from the islands, from Trinidad and Tobago, and there's a little bit more of this sense of not trust the process, but a little bit of almost the Bob Marley, everything's going to be all right. It's good. And part of it, too, is and this is almost there's almost a cynicism embedded in it, too, but of, look, life can be kind of deranged and screwed up at some times. Are you really going to spend every moment therefore, thinking about how bad it can be?

Or it can also be beautiful, like, where are you going to put your attention? And in the overall scheme of things, both you and I, unless I'm mistaken, we're doing better financially than probably about 50, 60, 70% of the world. If you just even know the fact that six out of seven people live in less than $32 a day, probably.

The world at that point, I think, right.

And it doesn't mean we're necessarily even happier, which is a whole different conversation, but yeah. So just very doing your thing. So it seems like you have a self knowledge of doing your thing. Just that whole idea, and it's talked about, you see me living that idea, that everything is either a success or a lesson, and you can still be smart. And that's the part. Something you mentioned. Gosh the invest in your time, not your money. And this gosh, if you're an entrepreneur, please heed this. Don't go paying the credit card. Oh, there's this new course for $10,000 by this guy. This guy who says it, I've done that. You might have done that. And it's like, no, no, look, do this stuff anyway. Or the very least, if they've got a ten dollar book, read their $10 book, implement the heck out of it for 30 days, 60 days, 90. Because if you won't implement it for.

30 days, you're not going to do it.

Are you really going to implement the $10,000? No. And as a coach, I don't want the guy or the gal that says, wait, here's $10,000. Make magic happen. I'm not willing to do the work, dude. I'm not that good. If I were that good, I'd be billing exactly. Or multi billionaire. I'd be a magician. That sense of yes, you put in the time on something, and you get to. See. I just remember when I thought I wanted to be an English major because I saw the video with Staying in the police. Don't stand so close to me. And I like the book Walden by Henry David Thoreau. And after I got my bachelor's degree, I signed up for a master's degree level course in literature. And by the second class, I realized, steve, do you believe this? Apparently they want you to read a lot.

Come on. I wouldn't hear what the.

And this was like 20 something years ago. There weren't a lot of audiobooks around as far as in depth. I was like, yeah. I was so sure that I was this deep. And I saw Dead Poets Society. All these people are so inspiring. Yes, that's one within two classes. And I made sure I got my no, I don't think I got a refund. So I spent $350 or whatever, $500 in credit hours to realize no. And it was mainly time. And actually, I guess I didn't invest.

You know, that's actually very funny. Probably not too many people know this anyway, but when I said before that I wanted to be a physio, actually, I wanted to do a million things, and I would have done them, but some good friends of mine probably swayed me in different directions as to why I chose where I went to go at that particular time. Leaving high school when nobody really knows what they want. But I actually did get accepted into university for an applied science degree, as that was my first backdoor to get into physiotherapy. Now, the problem was, in high school, I only did biology and maths and whatever, but I didn't do chemistry and I didn't do physics. Of course, being in an applied science degree, trying to backdoor your way in. First classes were chemistry, physics, DA DA DA DA. Now, I have a pretty good idea. I have a good YouTube idea of chemistry and physics. I can learn very well from YouTube, but certainly not textbook stuff. And within the first lesson and the first week, I knew I was so out of my depth that I did not have the fundamentals I didn't have the high school fundamentals of physics at all, or chemistry.

I do remember, though, they spoke about gravity on, I think, the second lesson in physics. I'm like, well, I understand gravity. That's where things hurt. If I'm jumping a motorbike and I'm coming down, I got a rough idea of the gravity and the trajectory that I'm going to hit the ground as to maybe how many bones I'll break, but that's not going to pass that particular course. So within the first two weeks, I rang Mum and dad. I must have rang them probably five, six times. After each lesson, I said, I can't do this. And it's that mentality of note. You've chosen it, you've been accepted it, you're going to do it, you will do it, and I knew I couldn't. I knew my skill set was not at that level. And I did quit within the first two weeks of that applied science degree, and that's how I ended up at the private college at very short notice, probably the week after. And that was actually incredibly difficult to quit something, giving it only I think I gave it ten days. I had two weeks to quit without having to pay for the whole semester.

And I don't think at that point I'd ever quit anything. I'd always done whatever I said I was going to do. I was only 18, probably 17, so that's not really a life story, is it? But you never quit. That was always what I knew, and it was the hardest decision to quit, but I knew I would have completely failed and wasted six months of my time in subjects that weren't going to be of any use to me for where I thought I was heading. They probably would be very useful now, but at the time, it made no sense. So I am glad that I made that decision to quit. So that's probably another lesson. So if you are listening to this episode, this podcast, and the reason you would be listening here to Wade every week and every episode, as an entrepreneur, probably another lesson I would say is if you know you are that up against the wall, it's not the worst thing to quit. There are other things to do as well. So I don't normally say quit things, but I knew I wasn't going to do that. Just as you said you weren't going to go be a volleyball professional, so be it.

I played rugby league with what turned out to be some very good rugby league players when I was younger, and they went on to do incredible things. I couldn't do that. Like, you got to know what you can do and you got to know what you can't do.

Two things are interesting. One is that you went from, I'm going to be a physio to I'm going to be a physio. I'm going to spend a lot of time with physios. Perhaps one way or another. Apparently there was something there. If we were mystics, we'd say that somewhere in your cards there were physios. We just didn't know exactly where they were going to be. But actually, you know what, I'm going to ask you to make a point out of this, because you just did, but I wonder if you could tighten it, because to me, what I just wrote down, as you were just speaking, you gave the difference between quitting intelligently quitting due to self knowledge versus failing. And I don't know your exact age. I'm 50. Our generation, although I think we're kind of close enough where we're told, especially as males, you don't exactly that's what weak people do, and the weak people.

That'S the worst part about it. Is your week if you do it. And that's the part that stops everybody in their tracks if the thought is.

What was it that you saw? So if someone were listening because again, let's think entrepreneurship, because sometimes I was talking with somebody yesterday. One of my friends has been trying to do an entrepreneurship. I was interviewing a gentleman who's a friend and he mentioned how he's a podcaster, but how he was an entrepreneur. And then he stopped doing he said, Look, I'm not a great entrepreneur. I'm a great tactician in the coaching that I do. I'm not a great business person. And I was sharing with him that a friend of mine had just said she was so disappointed because she might be going back to a job. But here's the job. The job is going to pay her way more than she was making four days a week work from home, all the support she needs with brilliant people.

I'm like that's not familiar. She's kicking goals on my feet.

Yes. So what was it that you would say if somebody sports life, entrepreneurship, what was it for you that you saw? What's that difference between quitting because the difference between quitting intelligent and giving up, because I think one is something where we say, I failed myself. I gave up. I wanted axe. What was that difference for you?

I could probably say I've done all of those. I've done everything. Everybody has. Everybody's had those stories. And to quit intelligently, it's probably the best thing you can do. That's where you sit down and really look at yourself and go, am I made out for this or not? And I wasn't made out for it. And that was one of the better lessons that I learned about myself, was I don't need to bang my head against the wall on something I know I can't do. What is the point? And I think about that when I take on different projects and I know I take on too many different things. And probably like what you said about the friend you were talking with yesterday, where they thought, okay, I'm going to get out of it because actually I'm a terrible businessman, but I'm better at tacticians. Well, I'm probably the same. If the only way to what's the word? Like if the result is to have money. I failed. Absolutely, I failed. But I never did. Everything that I've done, I have never, ever really done for money. Just enough that I get by. I look at success is if I'm happy doing what I want to do.

That is my version of success. But everybody has a different version. So for the lady who thought she quit it and then went and got a real job and worked four days a week, but she was at home and she got paid more money fit. I would love to take that. Some days I think I should just go get a real job because life would be so much easier. And that's also one part I want to go to. I want to have an easy life, but I know I keep coming back to what is fun, what gets me out of bed in the morning, why do I do what I want to do? And maybe I make life difficult. That's just what I do. But it's making life difficult in things I want to in things I want to be involved in. So, yeah, I could go do the easy thing. I could go make money, but I've quit the real world, intelligently quit the real world, because I want to do what I want to do in my own little world, and I love what I do, and that's where I want to stay.

So whether as long as I've got a roof over my head and we've got enough money to buy some food actually sorry. If I've got enough money to put diesel or petrol in the car or the van or the motorbike, that's my success. As long as I can get on a bike and go somewhere, that I'm stoked. So, yeah, I guess to answer the question, quitting failing, both are acceptable. It's the connotation you put to it. And like you said, when people say you're weak, it's not weak, it's the opposite of weakness. I think it's a strength to realize when you can't do something or you're wasting your time doing something and it's making you miserable, what's the point in being miserable?

Yeah, I love something that Wayne Dyer said. He told this story about a friend of his was a doctor who was just miserable. And the doctor, let's say, was 40 years old. And he says, the guy, well, why don't you do something different? You've made enough money, you're doing well. And the guy says, well, no, I decided when I was 18 years old, I decided I was going to be a doctor. And Wayne says, well, would you go to an 18 year old for career advice? He says, well, no, that's what you're doing. An 18 year old told you what to do, and you went with that. I thought that was so brilliant. So one thing you said I'd love you to go into, because we talked about this in the pre interview, is.

You remember the preview?

It was awesome. I take notes. This is why I write down things that sounded intelligent. So you said some things that sound intelligent. That's why we're here.

You've done well to write down something that sounded intelligent from my mouth. That's impressive.

So a lot of the times and even a lot of people I talked to, we talk a lot about filtering in the sense of not throwing your energy into too many opportunities or too many things because you can wear yourself. And then there's the flip side of the saying yes to the opportunity, the not knowing if you can do it, but being so excited, figuring it out, those sort of things, because that's something you seem to have done well. What's that been like? How have you done that? And who is that? Because it's not for everybody. It's not for the squeamish. Some people can't do it. What's that been like for you? How does that work? Or how do you try to explain that to somebody that maybe how do you explain it to a kindergarten?

Well, it's in progress. The answer to that is I'm completely in progress. So I'm 37 at the moment, and I might not have an answer for you until I am 50. I definitely run myself in, but I always have the end goal of where I know I want to go to. I know what I want to do. And if you look at the day to day, it can get overwhelming, and sometimes it does. Sometimes I have to sit back. And actually, the reason I found your podcast, because I really only work when I want to work. I don't even advocate for four days working. I would advocate for one day if you want to, or take the next three weeks off or whatever, whatever works for you. But I found your podcast, and I did like the idea of advocating for that, for the general populace, because it will help everybody. I do run myself thin, and sometimes I know I probably should work a lot harder, probably would make my life easier. But in those times, if I'm not feeling it, I'm not going to deliver on what I want to do. I'm not going to come at it with the energy that I know I should or that I know I want to give.

And as soon as you do that, you do become miserable, and I keep coming back to it's just work. So I don't need to feel miserable about work. I want to feel good about what I do. I'll do it, and it's good time. So how do you manage that? I think that's up to the individual. If you're somebody who likes to schedule things, I know that I don't schedule anything. I hate having a schedule. If I have a schedule, I feel more stressed, whereas I know people feel stressed without that schedule. And there's all these parts in between, and there's probably people far more on the extreme than I am. So I decided I know where I want to go. I at least know the aspects in which I can work to make those things happen. They will get done. It just takes time. So patience, patience, patience is probably the key to fixing that. And whether you take on two projects, whether you take on one project and do a well or take on ten projects, stuff around for a while, which I'm guilty of, but I do know that I don't know how many I've got on at the moment.

There's probably, I don't know, 1520 different things I'm working on. But I know some of those things can't happen for another two or three years before I came to Europe. Right now, just to give you a little bit of context, I am in Poland right now. I've been living in Germany the last eight years. I came here for two months. I came on this trip in 2014 for two months to judge at five world championship rounds of freestyle motocross. Eight years later, I'm still living in Europe. But before I came here, I was within about a month of pulling the trigger on the next business at the time, which was to do trail ride, tourism, taking riders from Australia and going to the jungles of Indonesia, where I did that first tour with Sheni and Clinton. And actually, this almost circles all the way around. One of the best days I ever rode a dirt bike. One of my best days ever in my life. We went to the very first show in Indonesia. It was raining flat out. It did not stop raining. It was torrential rain. The soccer stadium where we were supposed to do the show was completely bogged.

The locals in that area knew that motorcycles were going to come and that we were going to build jumps. And so there was a massive riot. So I think it was a day before we got there, they had army bulldozers and excavators. That's what they were going to build the course with. And as far as the story goes that I was told from the promoter, there were bombs put on the bulldozers. There were many, many threats to the police, the government, to everybody involved. This show will not happen because we don't want our soccer field to be destroyed. Wow. And then we landed, and then we were told this news, and we thought, oh, okay. So across the road, the promoter, he was fully stressed out as anybody would be. First event of his seven event tour, where do you go? And luckily, there was a block of land directly across the road from the soccer stadium. So with the Australian track builders that were there as well, and the sun that was riding in the motocross, they just built a motocross track. Just kind of like old school. Like, you know, when you're a kid and you've got a BMX and you dig a hole in the ground and you make a little jump out of the ground and then into the ground.

We did what we could do. And the mayor was so happy that we got this show done. And despite everything, it happened, and it was completely fault. There was so many people came. It was just the most unreal thing. So he said to say, thank you. Please, everybody, can you come to the Mare's compound and we'll have a Sunday lunch together? And we got there and we had the most amazing food in this town of Malan. And at the end of the lunch, he said, oh, actually, I like motorcycles as well. And he just clicked his fingers, and three guys pushed out these enduro bikes from KTM, and they had the most aftermarket parts that were on. These bikes would have cost maybe $30,000 each and then imported into Indonesia, where the taxes alone would have doubled the price. He's like, Would you like to go for a ride up to that volcano? Okay, just go back to your hotel, grab your helmets, and we'll go for a ride. In the 30 minutes, we went back to the hotel, came back, there was 100 bikes, like a motorcycle club. He must have rang somebody, and his whole motorcycle club turned up to the mayor's compound.

We had a police escort through the town. We got to where the forest started, and we went off. So the mayor was riding his bike. Josh and Clinton, they were on a couple of other pretty crappy bikes. I was on one of the mayor's bikes as well. And the reason I had a problem was it had all of these aftermarket parts with automatic clutch, automatic gears, automatic this, that, and the other. But the bike broke down in the middle of the jungle. It was only Josh, Clinton and myself riding. We had the guide in front of us, so we were following him. And I was the last rider because in theory, I had the best bike. No, there was too much technology, and the bike just could not handle the heat of Indonesia. And so my bike stopped. Josh and Clinton continued, and I just heard their bikes disappear. And I'm in the jungle on my own with a bike that's not going. After about an hour, the sun's going down, and it went behind the mountains. And after about 2 hours is when I was starting to really stress out that I'm stuck here for the night.

Like, I don't know where the hell I am. The jungle is so thick. I'm looking at the water in this little stream going by, and I thought, I wonder if I can drink that. You start thinking of survival instincts, and after about two and a half hours, another guy, the tale, this guy came along and found me, and we're just standing there looking at this bike. He's Speaking Indonesian bahasa Indonesian. I'm speaking English. We can't communicate with each other other than to say, bikes broken. Won't start. After a while, it finally did start. We ended up we got there, and by the time I got to the top of the volcano, josh and Clinton, the mayor, everybody else, they were sitting in these hot springs with fireflies buzzing around them, eating hot potatoes. I don't know why they had hot potatoes in a hot spring, but they did. And they were just having a great time. And I'm like, I thought I was going to die tonight. I had no idea what was happening. It was so surreal. But that entire ride, everything that happened on that was one of the best days of my life.

And this probably also circles around to why I think as bad as things can get, as bad as it felt, at the worst point, when you see the sun going down and you think, well, I'm here for the night with the mosquitoes and whatever, I will remember that day for the rest of my life. That was unbelievable. We went back there the next year, and unfortunately, the mayor was not there at that point in time, but he said, I know the guys are back. You're free to take my bikes, go for another trail ride. We'll organize somebody to take you. And so we did. We went on a trail ride, and it was another awesome experience. And so that's what I was about to do. One month before I came to Europe in 2014, I had done the whole business plan. I had everything lined up, from insurances to travel agents, how everything was going to work. I was probably within about a month of starting it, and I ended up in Europe. And I had to like I said, I was here for two months. That was the plan. Then I was here for five months, then I was here for a year.

And then it turned out that I could be a freestyle motocross rider and do very well living in Europe. I'm living the dream. I'm traveling to every country, getting a call out of the blue on a Wednesday. Can you come to Spain? Okay, I'll see you on Saturday. And I'd get in the van and I'd drive. I had to put that business plan that I'd put so much time and effort into, that's still on the back burner. I will do it. That business will happen, but I now know that won't happen until at some point in my life where things change, and I want to go back to that. So it's quite funny, like, all these things all link back up. And I'm sorry, that was a very long story, but I think that those points where you realize, yeah, you've put the work in, but maybe it doesn't work for now, or I came to Europe for two months. I've now been here for eight years. It just happens, you know, so you just kind of go with it. I started with A. I ended up with Z.

I love that story because it's so a lot of people not everybody, but a lot of people do entrepreneurship and just life to have these experiences. And you have some people talk about and I think there's truth to this, that it's not so much that people want work, life balance, like, in some exact they just want to know that they're living. They just want to know, as I've told people, if you get in no matter how many days you work in a week or don't, if you get in your time doing your hobby, spending time with the people you love, then you feel like, okay, it was a good week, and it might not have looked a certain way. And definitely to your point about multiple projects, I think so many people can relate to that. And if you're an entrepreneur, I had a gentleman who's a coach, and I said, Look, I've got literally 10, 15, 20 projects. He's like, wait. You just got to decide what's the project you're working on now and be open to the fact that there will be times when you didn't think that this one's about to come up, but come in like, boom, are you ready to do a blah, blah, blah?

And you're like, that's my 7th project. No, now it's your first project. And that can be beautiful. That can be life. That can be the sense of the play. That really there is this sense of, okay, I'm not sure what's happening next. And not a dangerous, not a crazy. And again, it depends on your brand of vodka, so to speak, whatever, how much you want, but you can have that. And to your point, there can be fun in that uncertainty as opposed to stress. And something else. I heard, of all people, I was listening to something a clip came up with 50 Cent. I thought it was about to be something about Rapid. I listened to Rapid, but he was talking about superstar to me. Said, look, he says, sometimes you're at the top of your game, and, you know, you've put in the work, and you're thinking, It's my time. It's supposed to happen now. He says, but it doesn't happen yet. And his explanation, he said, is, what happens is you now need to go through about another six months, a year, depending on who you are, where you don't get the external validation, and you need to toughen your result that I'm doing this anyway, and you need to not give a damn about the approval.

He says, Then when you reach that and he said in far fewer words, but he said, then when you reach that point, he says, then it comes because you thought you were ready, but you weren't ready.

Absolutely. And I was like, wow, I totally agree with that. And it's almost like the time comes and goes, and you don't realize until after the fact as well. Like, you've got to do that work. And sometimes I'd say, yeah, on that side, and as well on the other, that you do the work, the things happen, but you don't realize how good it was until you've actually done it. And then you sit back and go, Holy crap, this worked. Okay, we got there perfect. And I almost find that disappointing. I almost find reaching the goal is the worst part, because once I've got to the goal, I'm bored. That's my biggest problem. Once I've reached what I thought I was going to get to and I get there then I'm like, Eh, all right, now, what's next? It is a bit silly, but it is a feeling that comes along with it. I think a lot of people probably get that as well. I also have my own podcast just on freestyle motocross, and one of the best interviews I did was with a good friend of mine, but also one of the best riders to ever ride a bike, Levi Sherwood.

And I asked him about why he retired so young and at the top of his game, he was just so stylish and every time he turned up to an event, you think, oh, he could win this. This is Levi's to lose almost. And I said, Why did you quit? You won X Gangs, you won X Fighters, you won this, you won that, you've done everything. And he's like, yeah, exactly. I want it. What's the point winning it again? I get bored. So he retired and so then he went and built his own motorcycle from the ground up. He has not done an engineering course, but he built his own bike frame everything, 3D printing, all the CNC machining, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's learnt how to use engineering software and all that sort of stuff. And so that was the first podcast I did with him about a year and a half ago. I did one with him a few months back as kind of the follow up, and he said, yeah, well, I've built that first motorbike. I have revised it because I realized when I finished it, there were so many things that actually could have been better.

So I have done it a second time. But he said, I'm actually bored of that now. Like, I don't know, maybe I'll build a road bike, maybe I'll build a car or you know what, I don't know. And I felt the same when he said that there are parts, not with writing, but there are other parts in my life where I just do get bored. As soon as you reach that goal, move on. And I think it's a tough part for a lot of people once you get to that point, to stick with it. So there is the sticking with it through the process where it's hard as hell and you don't see any results at all, and it feels like you've wasted two years. And I've felt like that for four years now on many things. But also the other part is when you get to it and then to stick with it once you've made it to the top, and then to maintain what you've built, that's also very difficult and definitely a skill a lot of people need to work on.

Well, yeah, and I think, though you nailed it, I think it depends on the person. Some people win one. Championship in sports, and they want to win ten. Some people win one, and they say, wow, I'm thankful we've done one. And I think that's the play part. And I think that's the part that human nature. Some people call it divine discontent. Some people call it immaturity. So you can frame it any way you want, but this sense of if I've done something and if the joy was in the journey of discovery, like the way I watch my son do this with athletics sometimes is something I would do, is I would enjoy. Like when I play volleyball or basketball, I'm shooting a free throw. Okay, what if I do this? What if I do that? And so I got him this course with Steph Curry teaching how to shoot, and of course, mechanics are looking perfect. And he looked at Philip, he's like, yeah, that's good. And he didn't know how to say it. So at first I'm like, what does he mean? He's better than stuff. The ego comes in like, Wait, takes better than stuff?

Come on. And then I realized, no, he's actually he wants that whole journey. And it's almost like the videos are taking the joy away from him. If it becomes that, it's almost like it's, okay, great. Watch that video once, get some ideas, and go do your own thing. And I think that's the part you're probably the first person who has lucidly explained something to me that I so resonate with is I tell people I don't plan more than about three to six months into my future. And I'm not trying to brag. I'm not trying to send me a responsible but I've overplanned and found it didn't turn out the way I wanted. So it was almost like, okay, it's like the insignificant numbers at the end of a fraction. And then I've done things where I've just been open, and yes, something comes up. And of course, have I built skills? Do I do my best to do what I say, what I'm going to do, finish what I start? If I change my mind, say, hey, you know what? I thought I was going to do?

X.

Now, you know what? Because of these variables, I don't do that. And do I, even at the beginning, try to be really clear about, okay, hey, here's what if I was told my kids, here's what I'm promising you. If I ever use the word promise, that means I'm going to move every mountain possible to make that happen. Versus if I say I think so. Or let's see. And so 90% of my answers are, I think so, let me see. It depends. Let's check and see. And then that gives me the freedom to then say, but the other piece you said, that's just so huge. And I watch this with kids, with sports. I know you've seen this is once a person gets a bug for something, you can't stop them. But if they don't have it, you can't make it.

Exactly.

And so if you have a bug for something, and if it's that opportunity, you say, I've got a bug for it. And if you want to really almost go left brain and say, wait, is it responsible? Okay, well, then make sure four days a week you're earning your income or whatever it is. Make sure you're earning your income and budget the time and say, but yes, I'm going to give myself 1015 20 hours a week and some money for medical bills if you're whatever, to make sure you can do that.

Absolutely. Well, speaking of medical bills, I'm sitting here right now, I'm in a rehabilitation clinic in Poland, and the smart side of me has always had savings in case something goes wrong. And things have definitely gone wrong a lot of the time. But I've always had private health insurance in Australia, even though in Australia we have a free health care system. I've always had private health anyway because of the nature of the risk involved in what I do. And so now that I live outside of Australia, of course you have to have health insurance anyway, and especially in Germany, you have to have health insurance no matter what. There is no question that's just the German health system. So either you have a German government private health insurance coverage or like what I have, which is just an international coverage. At the moment, I'm having quite the fight with my insurance company, and I'm really looking at possibly having to pay for this three weeks in rehab myself if they don't cover it. At that point, it is what it is. I've saved for things like that. If it gets to that point, I don't want it to.

I really would hope my insurance covers it, but if it is what it is, we will see. So, yes, I always have my backup plan of what I feel I feel comfortable with. If I know things go terribly pear shaped, I've at least got something to fall back on. Some people say they perform better not having that backup, but knowing I have something in the back means I could do what I did in the sport that I wanted to do. It means I have the flexibility to go three weeks of not working if I didn't want to. But I knew for the next six months I would be working. I can work 12 hours, 18 hours a day if I have to. And especially when we do events, we are doing okay. So in next Saturday, we have our first event of 2022. We've now gone two years with COVID with all of the events being canceled. So we will be in Munich in Germany with Night of the Jumps, and it's a Saturday event, but we will be building from Friday, I think 05:00 in the morning, build all the way through Friday until probably two or three in the morning, go to bed.

I won't be doing that, but our crew will be. I'll be there looking after the riders. Then we start the next morning at about 09:00 10:00. The show goes until probably the end of the autograph session would be midnight again. And then you have a shower. Then it's time for the after party. So my wife's job, so I'm the rider manager at the World Championships. I do a lot of other things, but as long as the riders arrive at the venue, then in terms of that part of my job, it's done. Then it's her part. Then she looks after the riders to make sure they get on the bus, that they have what they need. They're at the right place at the right time to do their freestyle run and to get to the autograph session. The next part of her job is then to make sure there's the vodka and Red Bull at the after party. The beers are ready and all that sort of stuff. So the job goes until about 600 in the morning. So when we have an event on over 48 hours, we've probably been awake for 36 of them, if not closer to 40.

So yeah, there may be times when I don't feel like doing any work, but there are definitely the times when you just have to get in and do it. Or we did a Red Bull event, which was ten days building jumps, just sitting in doses and excavators and turning a Waste Land into one of the best events ever. And we didn't need to work that much. We wanted to. Like we said, we were going to build the best damn thing we could do and it broke us. We were broken by the end, from before sunrise to well after midnight, we were building jumps. And when that event happened, it was just like this. You were so relieved and also a little bit you couldn't believe what you've just built. It was like that was impressive. But I don't want to do that again for another few months. I'm done, I'm finished. I need a little bit of a break now. So it is cool to see those things come to life. But yeah, that's tough question.

That's why I think as we're coming to the close, this we talked about, we were going to talk about taking guilt free time off. And what I'm just saying in general is if you've done what you need to do, if you're having the time, you're honoring the commitments that you promised to, then taking time off is not.

That big of an absolutely. And this is something I see a lot in everybody. I'm also guilty of it sometimes. Not too much because I really don't like work, but people generally will just sit at the computer or they'll go to work because they have to, but that is just not what's the word. It's not efficient. You're not using your time well. And so I always come back to, am I having fun? If I'm not having fun, why bother? If it's something that I've committed to and it's not fun, that's actually a very tough point to get to. I will get through and I will do the work, and I will make it happen, but I will learn the lesson from, okay, maybe don't say yes to that one. We finish that project, or whatever it might be. But there will be times even coming up to this event in Munich, in one and a half weeks, probably three weeks ago, I was probably not very interested in taking an email or a phone call about what we had to do because I've spent the last two years this event has been postponed five times or six times since the start of COVID And so every three months, we're talking with the promoter or we get news from the government, no, we've got to cancel it.

So we have worked on this event for two years for nothing, and now we're so close to the finish line, I almost got to the point of just, can we just not talk about it for like, a day or two? Like, we know what to do, I know what I need to do. It will get done. And there was a little bit of guilt in that feeling because I knew I ran out of energy. But that's probably very reasonable to think after two years of constant postponement and working, okay, we've got new writers, we've got new teams, we've got this, we've got that. Is everybody able to bring all the technical equipment? Is the music guy still on? Is the security team? They still have a job? Everything can change very quickly. And so, yeah, there are the times when you have to take time off and be guilty about it, and I am a little bit guilty of that, but I don't pick on myself too much about it. Sometimes I do, but I try not to, and I try to realize when I'm at that point to then just take a step back and just chill out and it'll work out.

Thank you, man. Just so much. And it's funny, it's not always easy to explain to people or reverse engineer things. I find a lot of people are used to the packaged coach's answer. Well, that's because the packaged coach is selling you a coaching program. It doesn't mean they're a bad person, but sometimes they don't know the answers, and they're just giving a lot of bullet points to make it look like they know the answers. And entrepreneurship shifts. Anybody who tells you that it's going to be a certain way is either naive or full of nonsense.

I think I read something, actually, the other day about that. It's like it's either somebody who has already done it, or they will never do it. If they've got the answers, they've probably already done it and they're doing just fine, and they're probably not even involved in it anymore, or they're talking about it and they probably won't get to the end. Like I said, if you were to judge me by making money, I failed. Absolutely. But like I said before, I judge it by my lifestyle, and my lifestyle is I get to choose where I want to be almost at any one point in time. And I feel that is my goal and I have succeeded at it, and so that's enough for me and there's enough money to pay the bills. And after that, I kind of don't care. Yeah, I think what you're saying to them, with the entrepreneurs and the different bullet points, I've probably given the worst possible answers because I can't give you direct answers. I don't know what those direct answers are because everybody's so different. I'm just giving you what I have found.

And that's true. It's funny, although I just slightly shifted our title for when I put on the episode, which to me, it sounds like you've just created the freedom to be able to play and stay young and enjoy the process.

Absolutely. Because I think that's so true, because some may, and I have heard it a bit, that, are you so lucky to travel the world and do what you're doing? It wasn't luck. There is luck. There's absolutely luck. But I put myself in a position where the luck could happen. There's many things that I've probably missed, but, yeah, I've always wanted to put myself at least in the position if luck was to come along, maybe I can take advantage of it. A lot of the times it doesn't work out. Like I said, for the last four years, it depends. If we had this conversation a couple of months ago, probably would have been a very different conversation. I've now just had my hip replacement surgery done four and a half, nearly five weeks ago. So I'm 37. I now have a hip replacement like I'm an 87 year old man. And the last four years I've been weighing up how I approach this last injury that I've had, and it was a career ender, and I never wanted that to happen. That's been the big one as Steve Somerfeld, the athlete compared to whatever else I do in life.

I never wanted to quit riding a bike. That's what I want to do. And realizing that with constant pain, you cannot do what you want to do, that's a very tough pill to swallow. So, yeah, if we had this conversation two months ago, I probably would have been in a different frame of mind. I probably would have given different answers. No, sorry. I probably would have given you the same answers, but I would have been a bit unhappy at that point in time. But I've had the surgery. Now I'm feeling better day by day. And it kind of feels like life is coming back again. And the thing that I found out of all of it was it will get better. Like, as bad as it was and as pissed as I was. Am I allowed to say that on this podfest? I swear on mine, and only a little bit, but it does kind of sum it all up. I think I wasn't happy with what had happened, but at least there is a second chance. And I've got a few ideas. This is coming to another idea of another project. I want to get back into doing dumb things, but I may have to do that with more wheels and maybe with a roll cage.

I think they say with age comes a cage. So I haven't put it out there yet as to what I want to do.

Because.

Again. I want to think of everything that's going to go into this. I will do it. But I haven't worked out the finer points that I'm confident enough to say what it is just yet. But that will come other people. And I've spoken with other people about this and they're like. Just do it. Just get in and do it. And yeah, that works perfectly fine for you, but that doesn't work for me. I need to be 100% of this is going to work. So, yeah, I try. And like you said, if the title of the thing has changed, perfect. Because it is about being creative and I love being creative with my lifestyle, that's probably more what it comes down to. I just want to do whatever I want to do. And if I can make that happen, if I'm at a point where that happens daily, perfect.

That's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. And I love the stories, the digressions, because I think that's where people can anchor to things, where can people learn more about you, your work. And then also, even if they want to start looking at freestyle motocross and we'll put all the links in here.

I wouldn't recommend getting into it. But if you want to watch freestyle motocross, yeah. So I have a podcast called Riders Lounge Podfest. And very quickly, this is another diversion, I'm sorry about that, but I've realized that the podcast is not just the podcast. It's almost become an audio magazine in a way. I've written for magazines for many, many years and I feel like the podcast world, the audio, tells so much more than what the written version of a magazine could and what I thought I was starting my podcast as just simple interviews, just like this back and forth, has turned into so much more. So I have the Riders Lounge podcast. We talk about freestyle motocross. I do work with the World Championships night of the jumps. It's based in Europe, but of course we go all around the world, so we do have a few events this year, night of Thejumps.com, but I try and get involved in almost every event, every tour that's going around in the sport. I like to keep my ear to the ground on it all for me personally, I suppose. Stevesummerfeld.com, I probably haven't updated that website in a little while because of where I want to go with this next venture.

I've purposely neglected the athlete side of things because I do have a bit of an idea and I want to rebuild it later. So at the moment, you can find out what I have done in the past. I have been on a four year break with this hip problem after a big crash, but I do want to come back with something different. So, Stevemunfield.com Nightofthejumps.com or the Riders Lounge podcast, if you want to find it, wherever you can find your podcast. So we are there talking about and again. The funny thing is about the podcast. After listening to what you do and I listen to a lot of other business podcasts and funnily enough. Like what you said before we started. I think before we started this in the preinterview. You were talking about the three avatars of who listens and actually a lot of people listen to my freestyle Motocross podcast. Not so much about the sport. But a lot of people my age and older. And they want to know more about the lifestyle. How do people get to that position. And a lot of it comes with the business side of things.

So I've deviated again from the sport to the business inside a sport podcast. So, yeah, it's every day. Again, like you said, I started with plan A. And even on a podcast, the plan A should have been very simple to stick to and that completely blew out.

Well, yeah, you know what I found, like with my podcast, you can only talk about productivity.

Yeah, exactly.

Delegation so many times. At some point, there's got to be something more to it. That's a one degree offer. So that's where I find the overlap is so great. Steve, thank you so much for sharing your time with us. Really looking forward to sharing this. And for those you all listening, as always, look forward to helping you impact more people and make more money and less time doing what you do best so you can play like Steve plays and enjoy your family, your friends and your life. Thanks for listening.